hey everyone. A close friend of mine has recently purchased a used buick regal GS with 173km on it with the 3.8s/c. The supercharger boost gauge shows no boost and you can't really hear the whine of the supercharger upon acceleration.
Does anyone know what would cause this. The belt is connected to the s/c. Would a s/c oil change work? Would the car have a no boost condition if the computer detects 87octane? Im not familiar with this car so any help would be great.
I tried searching clubgp forums for no boost conditions but no one is complaining about that. They just talk about bearing noise. Any clues to what's happening? I feel so bad for him.
2003 Cavalier 2dr. 5spd
Slipping belt, stuck bypass valve, broken coupler, rotor coating shot, all in order of easy fix to worst case.
Did someone steal the supercharger?
have you checked to see if the blower itself moves? if the blower's removed and replaced wrong, or harmed in some way (ingests something, ect) the blower can lock up. pull the belt off and see if it spins.
Paul wrote:Slipping belt,
not likely on a stock belt. should still build a little boost
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stuck bypass valve
this is what im thinking. pull the engine cover off, there should be a black cyinder on the front (over the right bank) of the supercharger. first, make sure the metal rod sticking outt he bottom is attatched to the little lever coming out of the blower. second, make sure the electrical connection is plugged in. if it is not, the blower will only produce around 4 or 5 lbs of boost at WOT. third, make sure the vacume line is hooked up. if all of these pass, come back.
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broken coupler
lord i hope not. that could lead to some MAJOR problems
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rotor coating shot
shouldnt have that much of an affect. the coating only helps to close tollerences, if it wears off, the blower just becomes less efficient. actually, it falls off bit by bit anyway. half of the rotors on older cars have chipping coating.
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Would a s/c oil change work?
nope, low blower oil will just make a terrible sound and fry the drive gears. which brings us back to the first thing i said.
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Would the car have a no boost condition if the computer detects 87octane?
this worries me. has he been putting 87 in the car? if he has, tell him to STOP. that's a NO NO on boosted cars. highest octane you can get only. KR's a bitch, and he'll understand the joys of a popped piston if he keeps that up and gettin on it enough to get into boost. L67's are hot air engines, 87 octane detonates like CRAZY in them.
oh, just read back over that, and noticed two things.
1) is his intake system stock? if it is, then it has baffles to dampen the supercharger whine. hence, no hearing whine
2) the DIC boost gauge works off of the MAF sensor. you may possible need to replace the sensor.
Andy
it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E
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this worries me. has he been putting 87 in the car? if he has, tell him to STOP. that's a NO NO on boosted cars. highest octane you can get only. KR's a bitch, and he'll understand the joys of a popped piston if he keeps that up and gettin on it enough to get into boost. L67's are hot air engines, 87 octane detonates like CRAZY in them.
Blah.... I've put 87 into my GTP before. It doesnt detonate, but the ECU must find it and pull a lot of timing, cuz it's noticably slower on 87. It'll still build full boost (8psi) but it just wont have quite as many balls on 87.
If the coupler was broken, he'd have had pleanty of time and it's his own fault. When the coupler starts to go bad it starts to rattle when the engine is at idle. Worse it gets, the louder it gets. And it's generally going to take a long time for that coupler to completely give out.
I'm gonna do a +1 on the bypass valve. Check all the vac. lines and all.
And yeah, if the intake is stock, you're just going to hear a faint whine off the blower at a very specific speed (20mph) when you floor the gas and it drops into 1st gear.
SHOoff wrote:
Blah.... I've put 87 into my GTP before. It doesnt detonate, but the ECU must find it and pull a lot of timing, cuz it's noticably slower on 87. It'll still build full boost (8psi) but it just wont have quite as many balls on 87.
think twice before you give advice like that please. do you understand the harm of 87 octane on a boosted car? do you know why it feels slower? first, GTP's have PCM's, not ECU's. the PCM uses the knock sensor placed in the coolant valley of the block which senses slight vibrations to detect predetonation and detonation. the PCM then reduces timing to cool off each cylinder to try it's dambest to NOT detonate. this is what we call knock retard. retarding timing in order to reduce knock (detonation). basically, it waits until detonation occures then pulls timing, thus reducing power. it's not like the thing checks the octane before it runs it. something has to go wrong first. and you cant always hear the problem before it occures.
and full boost on a stock GTP is around 6 to 7 lbs. it buils around 8 lbs with a 3.5" pulley.
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If the coupler was broken, he'd have had pleanty of time and it's his own fault. When the coupler starts to go bad it starts to rattle when the engine is at idle. Worse it gets, the louder it gets. And it's generally going to take a long time for that coupler to completely give out.
i'll give ya that one. couplers are annoying as @!#$ on their way out, and take forever to do so. most start going around 90-100K miles. never seen one actually give all the way out, though. all it does is oval out the holes and rattle around. more of an annoyance factor than anything else.
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And yeah, if the intake is stock, you're just going to hear a faint whine off the blower at a very specific speed (20mph) when you floor the gas and it drops into 1st gear.
baffles are for the devil, get rid of that damn stock air box. blower whine is an angels voice saying "go faster"
Andy
it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E
I've been there with a slipping belt on a piss-poor tensioner, it's got mileage, worth looking at IMHO.
I've been there with a broken coupler (no pics), it actually shattered somehow (probably somehow the dumbass previous owners fault), I had to disassemble the blower, and pick out all the pieces.
Been there with broken pistons, the clown that owned it before me ran 87 w/ a 3.4 pulley & only a catback. Broke the skirt & the ring landing on the top on two at once.
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Been there with broken pistons, the clown that owned it before me ran 87 w/ a 3.4 pulley & only a catback. Broke the skirt & the ring landing on the top on two at once.
geez thats so stupid. i hate when people buy a l67 and they can slap a 3.4 pully on it and expect it to run beatifully.
bronzealero wrote:Quote:
Been there with broken pistons, the clown that owned it before me ran 87 w/ a 3.4 pulley & only a catback. Broke the skirt & the ring landing on the top on two at once.
geez thats so stupid. i hate when people buy a l67 and they can slap a 3.4 pully on it and expect it to run beatifully.
i hate it when people cant afford an extra $3 a tank of gas to put the good stuff in
and people who think all you have to do is drop a pulley
Andy
it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E
This is some really good info everyone, i'm going to send my buddy the link so he can get this all.
My friend just recently purchased the car and he is well aware to put at least 91 octane in there. He would never put 87. He was just wondering why his boost gauge was reading zero on full throttle and why the supercharger didn't make that sexy whine like it is suppose to.
The car drives like a 3.8 without the supercharger. The blower is connected to the drive belt and there is no funny bearing noises at all. Really, smooth and quiet engine. I'll tell him what might be going on and give you guys an update.
Thanks to everyone for their advice. Really appreciate it.
2003 Cavalier 2dr. 5spd
geeze...GTP's have enough KR problem on premium...lol. I cant imagine 87.
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and people who think all you have to do is drop a pulley
Werd!
5pointO
Lash wrote:geeze...GTP's have enough KR problem on premium...lol. I cant imagine 87.
agreed. most stock GTP's run with 2* or so of KR. and that's on premium with a stock 3.8" pulley
Andy
it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E
Well everyone was right on with the stuck bypass valve.
He fixed the stuck valve and the car is building boost. Hes changing the oil and belt for the supercharger for good measure. But my friend is having some other problems to overcome now.
He has an intake leak and an oil leak at the pan. Plus a knock and pwrsteering whine. Hopefully once he gets all that @!#$ taken car of, his car will not give him any more problems.
Thanks for everyone help, advice and input. Much appreciated.
2003 Cavalier 2dr. 5spd
caution, drunk post.
ok, intake leak i have no idea about. do you mean intake manifold, intake tuing, blah blah blah
do you mean knock or tick. knock could be bad. tick isnt as bad. lots of stock rockers tick with age, nothing wrong really, just annoying
the whine is his power stearing. it does that on almost every W-body... hell, every GM FWD transversly mounted engine. just needs replaced.
as for oil leaks. oil always leaks. the pan is an annoying part, because you have to pull the engine up or drop the cradle to get the pan off to replace the gasket. either way, big bucks if you have someone do it, and annoying if you do it yourself. iare you sure it's the pan and not the sending unit? check that, the sending unit often leaks on these cars. as well as valve covers. which are easy to replace
any other questions, feel free to ask
Andy
it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E
If there's an actual intake leak, it's most likely going to either be at the throttle body to S/C union, or the S/C to LIM union.
I had huge issues with leakage there. I ended up tossing the stock gaskets, cutting my own out of thick stuff, and blocking off the coolant from flowing through the LIM to the S/C. Cured that issue.
first paul, nice rx7
secondly, yes. he's right. do you know if coolant's getting into the LIM? it's a common problem, just replace the LIM gasket.
Andy
it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E
i think its a leak at the intake manifold, i guess the lower is what your guys are saying. He said he'll do it when he has money.
2003 Cavalier 2dr. 5spd
Now, to add my 2 cents in this topic, that is basically off topic . . .
You people are ridiculously smart about cars, lol. All this technical knowledge going on here, I'm baffled, lol. We have a lot of smart people on this forum to say the least
WORK wrote:first paul, nice rx7
secondly, yes. he's right. do you know if coolant's getting into the LIM? it's a common problem, just replace the LIM gasket.
And don't forget to replace the little o-rings while you're in there if you guys don't block off the coolant passages.
Paul wrote:WORK wrote:first paul, nice rx7
secondly, yes. he's right. do you know if coolant's getting into the LIM? it's a common problem, just replace the LIM gasket.
And don't forget to replace the little o-rings while you're in there if you guys don't block off the coolant passages.
ah yes! easy and cheap part to replace. sold at www.zzperformance.com in the gaskets section. just the LIM donut gasket or gasket, dont remember which one. it's a MUST if you're replacing the LIM gasket.
how does he know he has an intake leak? has he smelled coolant, seen vacume nubmers drop, ect? if vaccume nubers drop, it could be a problem with the tree on top of the blower. those connections tend to get old and crispy, so when you work around them they crack a bit and you get leaks.
if he smells coolant, there's about a 75% chance it's his LIM gasket. they go bad ALL the time. mine was bad before the cam swap. smelled coolant every time i shut the car off, and some times when i t got warmish (approaching 200*). just curious how he knows
Andy
it's not how fast you go, it's how you get there that counts.
ZZP XP cam, 1.6 rockers, 105# springs, speedbuilt FWI, 3.3" modular pulley, TOG headers,
3" exhaust, flomatched injectors
'97 GTP 14.06@100.6mph pre cam w/ 3.5" pulley, I/E
