http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/01/news/companies/gm_bankruptcy/index.htm

OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG!



"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net

union contracts are staying too

Seen this on CNN yesterday

Are you really surprised?

Should of happened MONTHS ago

The Obama administration's dealing of the Automobile and Housing crisis are so hideously wrongheaded that I don't even know what to say anymore.

They're trying to fix the housing crash by not lowering the price of houses, which is what triggered the crash in the first place.
They're trying to fix the automobile crisis by not forcing unions to renegotiate their salaries, which is one of the major problems.
They're trying to form a greener America where it's more expensive to live, in the middle of a recession when people have no money.

I've given a LOT of crap to Bush, called him "The Idiot in Chimp" actually, and I stand by every complaint I made. However, the Obama administration is shaping up to be just as bad.

One of Bush's biggest problems is that he was crap at speeches. Obama doesn't have that problem. Everything else though? Kee-rist. He might as well be the lovechild of Jimmy Carter and George Bush. All the bleeding heart, all the bad ideas, twice the stupidity.

You guys are so damn screwed.

suxors.



I'm tired of wasting my time... now I'm breakin' free.

Ralph NAder had some decent coments on the subject.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=prnw.20090601.DC25338&show_article=1

Knoxfire Esquire wrote:The Obama administration's dealing of the Automobile and Housing crisis are so hideously wrongheaded that I don't even know what to say anymore.

They're trying to fix the housing crash by not lowering the price of houses, which is what triggered the crash in the first place.
They're trying to fix the automobile crisis by not forcing unions to renegotiate their salaries, which is one of the major problems.
They're trying to form a greener America where it's more expensive to live, in the middle of a recession when people have no money.

I've given a LOT of crap to Bush, called him "The Idiot in Chimp" actually, and I stand by every complaint I made. However, the Obama administration is shaping up to be just as bad.

One of Bush's biggest problems is that he was crap at speeches. Obama doesn't have that problem. Everything else though? Kee-rist. He might as well be the lovechild of Jimmy Carter and George Bush. All the bleeding heart, all the bad ideas, twice the stupidity.

You guys are so damn screwed.

And yet it's GM insiders within not DC that will continue to run the company.

My thing is, great, there will be more efficient cars (finally too) but as long the competition has sporty, fun to drive cars, and GM's decision to remove GM Performance division as part of the slimmer approach, the only thing I see is loosing market territory. Now the day that fuel will reach $5+ per gallon I see this new line of efficient cars to do good for GM. Time will tell what will the market dictate.

But whether you or GM likes it or not, the only people they can blame is themselves.



>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----

This what GM says...


GM ANNOUNCES AGREEMENT WITH U.S. TREASURY AND CANADIAN GOVERNMENTS PROVIDING FAST TRACK TO COMPETITIVE FUTURE FOR 'NEW GM'

NEW GM, BUILT FROM COMPANY'S STRONGEST OPERATIONS, EXPECTED TO LAUNCH IN 60-90 DAYS UNDER NEW OWNERSHIP

GM FILES VOLUNTARY CHAPTER 11 TO IMPLEMENT '363' SALE AGREEMENT

GM IS OPEN FOR BUSINESS IN THE U.S. AND WORLDWIDE, HONORING ALL CUSTOMER COMMITMENTS

Warranty, service and customer support continue uninterrupted, backed by the U.S. and Canadian governments
Essential suppliers to be paid in the normal course
Employees to be paid in the normal course
Operations outside U.S. not included in court filing
DETROIT, June 1, 2009 - General Motors Corp. (NYSE: GM) today announced that it has reached agreements with the U.S. Treasury and the governments of Canada and Ontario to accelerate its reinvention and create a leaner, stronger "New GM" positioned for a profitable, self-sustaining and competitive future.

Pending approvals, the New GM is expected to launch in about 60 to 90 days as a separate and independent company from the current GM ("GM"), with two distinct advantages: it will be built from only GM's best brands and operations, and it will be supported by a stronger balance sheet due to a significantly lower debt burden and operating cost structure than before. The New GM will incorporate the terms of GM's recent agreements with the United Auto Workers (UAW) and Canadian Auto Workers (CAW) unions and will be led by GM's current management team.

The New GM will execute the key elements of its April 27 viability plan, along with additional initiatives, to achieve winning financial results by putting customers first, concentrating on adding to the company's line of award-winning cars and trucks through four core brands and continuing to invest in green, energy-saving technologies.

Under its plan, GM will sell substantially all of its global assets to the New GM. To implement the sale agreement, GM and three domestic subsidiaries have filed voluntary petitions for relief under chapter 11 of the United States Bankruptcy Code in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of New York, and the sale is subject to the approval of the Court. Because GM's sale of assets to the New GM already has the support of the U.S. Treasury, the UAW and a substantial portion of GM's unsecured bondholders, GM expects the sale to be approved and consummated expeditiously.

GM has asked the Court to approve a number of steps to protect current and new GM customers, ensure that its operations will continue uninterrupted during the court-supervised process, and provide for a smooth transition to the New GM.

GM dealers will continue to service GM vehicles and honor GM warranties, and U.S. and Canadian government guarantees of manufacturers' warranties are designed to reassure consumers.
GM will use its cash-on-hand and a new Debtor-in-Possession (DIP) financing of approximately $33 billion to: ensure an uninterrupted supply of goods and services and provide for other cash requirements prior to closing of the asset sale; fund liabilities to secured lenders; and provide contingency funding to handle any potential unexpected needs. Furthermore, in conjunction with the sale, the U.S. Treasury and the Canadian and Ontario governments will provide funds to administer the wind down of the remaining assets and the closing of the chapter 11 cases.
GM employees worldwide will become part of the New GM.
"Today marks a defining moment in the reinvention of GM as a leaner, more customer-focused, and more cost-competitive company that, above all, can quickly generate winning bottom line results," said Fritz Henderson, GM president and CEO. "The economic crisis has caused enormous disruption in the auto industry, but with it has come the opportunity for us to reinvent our business. We are going to do it once and do it right. The court-supervised process we are pursuing provides us with powerful tools to accelerate and complete our reinvention, as well as strong safeguards for our customers and our business. We are focused on the job at hand, for the benefit of our customers, employees, dealers, suppliers, retirees, taxpayers, investors and other stakeholders.

"We recognize the sacrifices that so many have been asked to make as we have worked to reinvent GM and the automobile," said Henderson. "GM deeply appreciates the support and the demonstration of confidence in our future by President Obama, the Presidential Task Force on Autos, the Canadian and Ontario governments, American and Canadian taxpayers, the unsecured bondholders who are supporting the proposed sale transaction, the UAW and CAW and their leadership, and the men and women of GM, including our retirees. You have enabled us to carry out this vital transformation for the good of GM, our customers and the economy, and we are working to validate your trust each day.

"From day one, the New GM will be well-positioned to capitalize on the award-winning vehicles we have developed and launched during the past few years, and on our investments in exciting new technologies like the Chevy Volt, so that we can build and return value to our customers and to the millions who will have a stake in our success. The New GM will play a critical role in the future of the automobile, and assure that the U.S. has a strong stake in this rapidly changing global manufacturing industry," Henderson said.

Business operations continue globally without interruption

GM's North American manufacturing operations continues to monitor production output to make sure it aligns with market demand, and currently intends to ramp up manufacturing operations as market demand improves during the latter half of the year.

None of GM's operations outside of the U.S. are included in the U.S. court filings or court-supervised process, and these filings have no direct legal impact on GM's plans and operations outside the U.S. GM confirmed that all business operations are continuing without interruption in its Europe; Latin America, Africa and the Middle East; and Asia Pacific regions.

"Worldwide, GM dealers are open for business, offering competitive financing options on our award-winning vehicles, continuing to honor our industry-leading warranty coverage, and providing outstanding service," said Henderson. "Furthermore, the U.S. Treasury and the Canadian governments have issued a strong vote of confidence by backing GM's vehicle warranties."

GM has filed various "first day" motions with the Court to ensure the company's continued ability to conduct normal business operations. Upon Court approval, GM will be expressly authorized, among other things, to:

Honor all obligations to customers and continue customer programs, including warranties, without interruption
Respect our operating and financing agreements with GMAC, supporting continued wholesale financing for dealers and retail financing for customers
Pay dealers' open accounts and continue warranty and incentive programs
Pay essential suppliers and logistics providers for goods and services provided before and after the company's court filings
Continue pay and benefits for employees and retirees; however, the amount of non-qualified pension for some executive retirees may be affected.
The New GM

GM's agreements with the U.S. Treasury, the Canadian and Ontario governments and the UAW and CAW, in addition to the support of a substantial portion of GM's unsecured bondholders, will enable the New GM to be a leaner, faster and more customer-focused enterprise, consistent with the vision, goals and plans of GM's enhanced operating plan announced April 27.

The New GM will:

Focus on four core brands in the U.S. - Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick and GMC - with fewer nameplates and a more competitive level of marketing support per brand
Effectively close the competitive gap in active worker labor costs compared with transplant auto manufacturers
More efficiently utilize U.S. capacity while increasing over time the percentage of U.S. sales manufactured domestically
Feature lower structural costs enabling its North American region to break even (on an adjusted EBIT basis) at a U.S. total industry volume of approximately 10 million vehicles. This rate is substantially below the 15 to 17 million annual vehicle sales rates recorded from 1995 through 2007
Achieve its lower structural costs in part by further reducing 2009 salaried employment in North America from its year-end total of 35,100 to approximately 27,200, and continuing to improve its balance sheet by reducing retiree benefits for salaried retirees and non-UAW hourly retirees
Provide a higher level of customer service through a more focused U.S. network of approximately 3,600 dealers
Continue and increase its investment and leadership in fuel economy and advanced propulsion technologies
Capital Structure of the New GM

A critical element of GM's reinvention is to achieve a significantly stronger and healthier balance sheet. On March 31, 2009, GM reported consolidated debt of $54.4 billion, along with additional liabilities, including an estimated $20 billion obligation to the UAW VEBA.

Under GM's agreements with the U.S. Treasury, the Canadian and Ontario governments, and the UAW and CAW, and with the support of a substantial portion of GM's unsecured bondholders, upon closing of GM's sale of assets to the New GM, the New GM's capital structure will be comprised of:

Approximately $17 billion in total consolidated debt, including:
$6.7 billion of debt owed to the U.S. Treasury
$1.3 billion of debt owed to the Canadian and Ontario governments
$2.5 billion of notes issued to the new Voluntary Employee Beneficiary Association (New VEBA)
Approximately $6.8 billion of other, primarily international debt, but excluding Europe
$9 billion of perpetual preferred stock with a 9 percent annual dividend, payable quarterly in cash, $2.1 billion of which will be issued to the U.S. Treasury, $0.4 billion of which will be issued to the Canadian and Ontario governments and $6.5 billion of which will be issued to the New VEBA
Common equity, 60.8 percent of which will be owned by the U.S. Treasury, 11.7 percent of which will be owned by the Canadian and Ontario governments, 17.5 percent of which will be owned by the New VEBA, and 10 percent of which has been reserved for GM for the benefit of the unsecured bondholders and other unsecured creditors of GM
Warrants granted to the New VEBA to acquire newly issued shares in the New GM equal to 2.5 percent of its outstanding common equity
Warrants granted to GM at closing to acquire newly issued shares in the New GM equal to 15 percent of its outstanding common equity, with various exercise prices and expirations
Other than the $8 billion of debt owed to the U.S. Treasury and the Canadian and Ontario governments by the New GM, all amounts owed by GM or the New GM to the U.S. Treasury and Canadian and Ontario governments would be equitized in exchange for the New GM securities described above, and no other debt will be owed by GM to the U.S. Treasury and the Canadian and Ontario governments.

GM Europe Restructuring

GM announced separately today, GM Europe has an agreement for €1.5 billion of bridge financing from the German government and a Memorandum of Understanding to partner with Magna International Inc. Under the agreement, the Opel/Vauxhall assets have been pooled under Adam Opel GmbH, with the majority of the shares of Adam Opel GmbH being put into an independent trust (the balance to remain with General Motors), while final negotiations with Magna proceed. Negotiations to close the agreement should take several weeks. Additional details will be available athttp://media.gm.com/eur/gm/en/.

New products and technologies on track

The New GM, with its strong financial base and best-in-class dealer network, will support a portfolio of award-winning vehicles, including the Chevy Malibu (2008 North American Car of the Year and J.D. Power and Associates' segment leader in its 2008 Initial Quality Survey), Cadillac CTS (Motor Trend Car of the Year) and its Buick brand (tied for 1st place in J.D. Power and Associates' 2009 Vehicle Dependability Study). The New GM will have a number of key vehicle launches in 2009 and 2010, including:

Chevrolet Camaro, a dramatic, moderately priced sport coupe with highway fuel economy of up to 29 mpg
An all-new Buick LaCrosse premium midsize sedan
The luxury midsize Cadillac SRX crossover and CTS Sport Wagon
The Chevy Equinox and GMC Terrain, midsize crossovers with class-leading highway fuel economy of 32 mpg
The Chevy Cruze, GM's new global compact car
The revolutionary Chevy Volt, an extended-range electric vehicle that can travel up to 40 miles on battery power alone with the extended-range capability of more than 300 total miles.
"Our products are our future, and our lineup of new cars and crossovers are a great foundation for success," said Henderson. "The New GM is here to stay, and our brands position us to compete well in profitable segments with vehicles that are second-to-none."

GM also reaffirmed its commitment to improve the fuel efficiency of its vehicle fleet, meet or exceed new federal fuel economy and emissions regulations, and push ahead with advanced propulsion technology. GM will launch the Chevrolet Volt extended range electric vehicle in 2010, expects to have 14 hybrid models in production by 2012, and will have 65 percent of vehicles alternative-fuel capable by 2014.

"The New GM will become a long-term global leader in the development of fuel-efficient and advanced-technology vehicles," said Henderson. "In doing so, the New GM will contribute to the development of advanced engineering and manufacturing capabilities in the United States, which are critical to the future of the U.S. economy."

GM's primary bankruptcy counsel is Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP. GM is also represented by Jenner & Block LLP and Honigman Miller Schwartz and Cohn LLP as counsels. Cravath, Swaine, & Moore LLP is providing legal advice to the Independent Directors of GM. GM's restructuring advisor is AP Services LLP and its financial advisors are Morgan Stanley, Evercore Partners and the Blackstone Group LLP.




>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----

And the GM Board of Directors statement

Attributable to Kent Kresa, Chairman:

“The General Motors Board of Directors authorized the filing of a chapter 11 case with regret that this path proved necessary despite the best efforts of so many. Today marks a new beginning for General Motors. A court-supervised process and transfer of assets will enable a New GM to emerge as a stronger, healthier, more focused and nimbler company with a determination not to just survive but to excel. The Board concluded that the proposed transformation will maximize the value of the enterprise, and the return to the many stakeholders who have been involved with GM over the years.

We are appreciative of the support from the U.S. Treasury, the President’s Task Force on Autos, the UAW and its members, salaried employees and retirees, concurring bondholders, and very importantly, the American taxpayers. The Board is confident that this New GM can operate successfully in the intensely competitive U.S. market and around the world. The Board stands behind the people of GM in embracing this unique opportunity to create value and a new company that will design, engineer, build and market the best cars and trucks in world.”





>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----

Knoxfire Esquire wrote:The Obama administration's dealing of the Automobile and Housing crisis are so hideously wrongheaded that I don't even know what to say anymore.

They're trying to fix the housing crash by not lowering the price of houses, which is what triggered the crash in the first place.
They're trying to fix the automobile crisis by not forcing unions to renegotiate their salaries, which is one of the major problems.
They're trying to form a greener America where it's more expensive to live, in the middle of a recession when people have no money.

I've given a LOT of crap to Bush, called him "The Idiot in Chimp" actually, and I stand by every complaint I made. However, the Obama administration is shaping up to be just as bad.

One of Bush's biggest problems is that he was crap at speeches. Obama doesn't have that problem. Everything else though? Kee-rist. He might as well be the lovechild of Jimmy Carter and George Bush. All the bleeding heart, all the bad ideas, twice the stupidity.

You guys are so damn screwed.

I'm sorry, but the housing crash was not due to high home prices. The housing crash was due to selling $500,000 homes to family's that make $40,000 per year using ARM loans. When the ARM's readjusted up, nobody could afford their payments, and suddenly all those families were defaulting on home loans. After that, they would get wages garnished, cut back on spending, and down comes the housing market. The problem was lending people money through programs with adjustable rates that they could never pay back.

The automobile crisis is definately in the unions, but not salaries so much as benefits. Even if a union employee is fired, they still get their wages, health benefits, etc for life, and all paid for by the automaker. The UAW should be ashamed of themselves, just because of health costs bore by the automaker, that added $1,500 to EVERY CAR they put out. Think about that for a minute.





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Shifted wrote:

Knoxfire Esquire wrote:The Obama administration's dealing of the Automobile and Housing crisis are so hideously wrongheaded that I don't even know what to say anymore.

They're trying to fix the housing crash by not lowering the price of houses, which is what triggered the crash in the first place.
They're trying to fix the automobile crisis by not forcing unions to renegotiate their salaries, which is one of the major problems.
They're trying to form a greener America where it's more expensive to live, in the middle of a recession when people have no money.

I've given a LOT of crap to Bush, called him "The Idiot in Chimp" actually, and I stand by every complaint I made. However, the Obama administration is shaping up to be just as bad.

One of Bush's biggest problems is that he was crap at speeches. Obama doesn't have that problem. Everything else though? Kee-rist. He might as well be the lovechild of Jimmy Carter and George Bush. All the bleeding heart, all the bad ideas, twice the stupidity.

You guys are so damn screwed.

I'm sorry, but the housing crash was not due to high home prices. The housing crash was due to selling $500,000 homes to family's that make $40,000 per year using ARM loans. When the ARM's readjusted up, nobody could afford their payments, and suddenly all those families were defaulting on home loans. After that, they would get wages garnished, cut back on spending, and down comes the housing market. The problem was lending people money through programs with adjustable rates that they could never pay back.

The automobile crisis is definately in the unions, but not salaries so much as benefits. Even if a union employee is fired, they still get their wages, health benefits, etc for life, and all paid for by the automaker. The UAW should be ashamed of themselves, just because of health costs bore by the automaker, that added $1,500 to EVERY CAR they put out. Think about that for a minute.

I dont know who told you that lie if we arer fired thats is unless you have a drug problem they will get you help. but if you get fired you are done you get nothing. as far as this contract i voted he// no. take some pay from me not our parents who would vote yes.


see ya!

Shifted wrote:

Knoxfire Esquire wrote:The Obama administration's dealing of the Automobile and Housing crisis are so hideously wrongheaded that I don't even know what to say anymore.

They're trying to fix the housing crash by not lowering the price of houses, which is what triggered the crash in the first place.
They're trying to fix the automobile crisis by not forcing unions to renegotiate their salaries, which is one of the major problems.
They're trying to form a greener America where it's more expensive to live, in the middle of a recession when people have no money.

I've given a LOT of crap to Bush, called him "The Idiot in Chimp" actually, and I stand by every complaint I made. However, the Obama administration is shaping up to be just as bad.

One of Bush's biggest problems is that he was crap at speeches. Obama doesn't have that problem. Everything else though? Kee-rist. He might as well be the lovechild of Jimmy Carter and George Bush. All the bleeding heart, all the bad ideas, twice the stupidity.

You guys are so damn screwed.

I'm sorry, but the housing crash was not due to high home prices. The housing crash was due to selling $500,000 homes to family's that make $40,000 per year using ARM loans. When the ARM's readjusted up, nobody could afford their payments, and suddenly all those families were defaulting on home loans. After that, they would get wages garnished, cut back on spending, and down comes the housing market. The problem was lending people money through programs with adjustable rates that they could never pay back.

The automobile crisis is definately in the unions, but not salaries so much as benefits. Even if a union employee is fired, they still get their wages, health benefits, etc for life, and all paid for by the automaker. The UAW should be ashamed of themselves, just because of health costs bore by the automaker, that added $1,500 to EVERY CAR they put out. Think about that for a minute.

and if you dont know the truth please dont spread more lies about us! hell my plant will be closed by dec of 2010. but i have been looking for a better job for years.


see ya!

No lies. The UAW is just another greedy factor why the big 3 are in as deep as they are. Stop trying to spin it like the UAW is not greedy, you're greedy, and it will cost you your job, get over it.

But the main reason GM went down so fast was piss poor build quality and sub-par product. People gave them 2nd and 3rd chances and as the cars proved they were terrible/boring people moved on to other brands. The other side of that coin is service. GM service was/is horrid, they sold you garbage and if you needed it fixed they treat you like an @!#$ for wanting warranty service done to the car. GM just skipped by on their name for years in a crash and burn type of fashion. They did this to themselves.

Why am i so angry about this?
because not only did the taxpayers give these a-holes at GM billions in bailout money, we also gave billions to bailout their finacing arm GMAC. Now that they filed they don't have to pay that back and they won't extend any loans to anyone with a fico score over 700, which is like 10% of the buying public. So it was ok to take my money and squander it. But you won't dare give me a loan because my fico is 670...the average score by the way. The way i see it if we gave them money then they owe us to grant loans to people with real world fico scores. basically they are just loaning us back our money. They want people to buy GM and support GM, but won't give out loans then that's not our problem as far as i'm concerned.



"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net

Jookycola wrote:No lies. The UAW is just another greedy factor why the big 3 are in as deep as they are. Stop trying to spin it like the UAW is not greedy, you're greedy, and it will cost you your job, get over it.

But the main reason GM went down so fast was piss poor build quality and sub-par product. People gave them 2nd and 3rd chances and as the cars proved they were terrible/boring people moved on to other brands. The other side of that coin is service. GM service was/is horrid, they sold you garbage and if you needed it fixed they treat you like an @!#$ for wanting warranty service done to the car. GM just skipped by on their name for years in a crash and burn type of fashion. They did this to themselves.

Why am i so angry about this?
because not only did the taxpayers give these a-holes at GM billions in bailout money, we also gave billions to bailout their finacing arm GMAC. Now that they filed they don't have to pay that back and they won't extend any loans to anyone with a fico score over 700, which is like 10% of the buying public. So it was ok to take my money and squander it. But you won't dare give me a loan because my fico is 670...the average score by the way. The way i see it if we gave them money then they owe us to grant loans to people with real world fico scores. basically they are just loaning us back our money. They want people to buy GM and support GM, but won't give out loans then that's not our problem as far as i'm concerned.

( and these people built bombs and tanks planes guns for the past wars as well as hummers ) the uaw is not greedy they are just protecting what our parents worked so hard to get. working in very bad conditions working like slaves. there is a reason there are so-many people that can retire right now. because back in the late 60's and early 70's if you looked like you didn't want to do a job because it was dangerous they would flat out tell you we have 50 people waiting out side the gate that want your job. and we just have what all other big automakers get if not less. we don't have child care in house you don't hear what other automakers give their employees just us. hell some toyota employees make allot more than us.
we have very hard jobs that most people just cant do no matter how smart they are. some jobs look easy but the guys that i work with are big strong guys. you ever tried to pick up a lumbar rear seat and pass it through a car that is moving. oh and it weigh's 85 lbs? or install torque converters in a 4l60E 45lbs and you have to do three a minute. yeah we have health care but we need it.
I know from the outside looking in it looks like we have cake jobs but that just ain't so. when it comes to getting hired that is a task in it self now days. my group started with 4,000 people after the drug screen it was a little over 800 left and after testing process and interview we were left with 43 thats it. i can say the people i work with are very good very smart and talented people.

sorry for venting but i think everyone should stop beating up on hourly workers we just do as we are told. GM management is the problem. they gave up the small car market to the imports and at the time the imports just built better small cars. while GM built ok/ crappy larger cars and trucks.


see ya!

Quote:

I'm sorry, but the housing crash was not due to high home prices. The housing crash was due to selling $500,000 homes to family's that make $40,000 per year using ARM loans.

Well see, why were people making 40,000$ a year buying 500,000$ homes? In a lot of cases it was stupidity and faux rich pretensions, but in a lot of other cases it was the fact that the 500,000$ homes were the only thing for sale within an hour's drive of their job. It was either overpriced houses or overpriced appartments and as expensive as the houses were, they were cheaper than the damn appartments at 2500$+ a month

And because banks loaned so much money so easily to people, THAT made the house prices go up. Greedy sellers decided to fleece people out of every penny they could since they had access to so much money.

It was a vicious circle, but my point is that as long as house prices are out of the range of high end working class people, you're just not gonna have the home sales you once did. Also, if the prices stay high you're gonna have people only spending money on their morgage/rent and car, and that's it. So how is that going to end the recession?

Another problem is that if people are walking a razor's edge with their budget, they sure as hell won't quit crap jobs for better ones somewhere else because they can't afford to take chances. Which means that these people are going to try and weather the storm and stay put until they go bankrupt. Further increasing the incidence of defaults.

Further problems with high home prices and rents is how the hell are low wage people going stay in high cost areas? Businesses are going to have to pay their employees more to keep them, then pass off the cost to the consumers, which will then raise prices even more, so again you're creating a deadly spiral.

I'm telling you. Home prices are the key. Every time you've have a wealth boom in your country the house prices were low.

typical pro-UAW B.S. spin. Do you guys get a script you have to memorize or something?

You are not a regular hourly worker. You don’t compare to a guy that works at a Lowe’s or the hourly McDonald’s worker. As a matter of fact I’m a nurse and union and I don’t get the wages or benefits you greedy UAW slobs get. And I save lives…what do you do? Bolt in a radio, bolt on a fender. Oh that’s really hard. If it’s back breaking work, then too bad you chose a life of labor, you should’ve known that walking in.
let’s face it if the job didn’t vastly over pay you and hand out unrealistic health care there is nothing remotely alluring to the job at all. You wouldn’t do it for $20.00 and hour and no health benefits. So stop making it sound like you’re doing so much for the american workers…all you’ve really done is make companies close jobs here and go overseas to get cheaper labor. The UAW and many other unions greed is killing america and costing jobs. Some unions are honest, but the UAW isn’t one of them

We will beat up the greedy, lazy UAW workers because you are just as much the problem as well. Deny it, spin it all you want but it’s true.




"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net

Jookycola wrote:typical pro-UAW B.S. spin. Do you guys get a script you have to memorize or something?

You are not a regular hourly worker. You don’t compare to a guy that works at a Lowe’s or the hourly McDonald’s worker. As a matter of fact I’m a nurse and union and I don’t get the wages or benefits you greedy UAW slobs get. And I save lives…what do you do? Bolt in a radio, bolt on a fender. Oh that’s really hard. If it’s back breaking work, then too bad you chose a life of labor, you should’ve known that walking in.
let’s face it if the job didn’t vastly over pay you and hand out unrealistic health care there is nothing remotely alluring to the job at all. You wouldn’t do it for $20.00 and hour and no health benefits. So stop making it sound like you’re doing so much for the american workers…all you’ve really done is make companies close jobs here and go overseas to get cheaper labor. The UAW and many other unions greed is killing america and costing jobs. Some unions are honest, but the UAW isn’t one of them

We will beat up the greedy, lazy UAW workers because you are just as much the problem as well. Deny it, spin it all you want but it’s true.

first i am not lazy i work 2 jobs! 2nd sounds like you are geting screwed thats not my fault. third i have worked for less with no health benifits. they can build over seas they just wont have people here that will buy it.
but i have to be honest with you the UAW is dirty i dont know for sure. the real problem is free trade. and many companys like AT&T are cutting jobs like they are putting out a fire.

let me get this right you are a nurse and you say we are lazy! i know plenty of nurses and most are lazy. i bet that rubbed you the wrong way! well how do you think i feel.


see ya!

Sorry, i guess i forgot to add immature and petty to lazy and greedy. My bad.



"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net

novaracer wrote: the real problem is free trade.

Sigh... you're definitely one sandwich short of a picnic.



" To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous. "

novaracer wrote:they can build over seas they just wont have people here that will buy it.

Um, you are not really helping your case by arguing facts with stupidity. I hate to be the one to break it to you but…
they build cars in mexico and people buy them,
they build TV's & ipod’s in china people buy them,
they build Washer machines, Dell laptops in India people buy them.
They make 90% of the clothes you wear in Malaysia
Visit a Best Buy 99% of the products sold there are made outside the U.S. I don’t see them boarding up Best Buys anytime soon. Yes people will buy it, sadly the only person that will agree with any of your non-sensical rants would be a fellow Union brother. The rest of the people in the U.S pretty much think you’re all lazy, uneducated, whiney, overpaid, high school dropouts…your comments thus far seem to show that some stereotypes are based in reality.
So your pro-UAW martyr agenda spin still has no point. We've all heard the same UAW script your reading from a million times, your not going to win any sympathy.
Just stop, you don’t have a leg to stand on.






2007 Corvette Z51 | Suzuki Swift GTi SCCA racer | 2008 Edge