Yeah, I'm not even gonna bite on that accusation of poor customer service (talk about tangenting in anger!), except to say:
Better make sure you are 100% correct in trying to spread nasty rumors about someone's livelihood. Should you ever be held accountable for the effects of your actions, you're going to need something substantial.
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 wrote:A local who you just built a turbo kit for his HHR said you did the same thing to him. He asked questions and you told him, "I don't have time to train you to understand all of the nuances." . WTF kind of professional does that? This guy just paid you some major coin and you can't hlep him understand more about what you did to his vehicle? Now I will also tell you he is not happy with the tune and something along the lines that you told him that he needed to buy a boost gauge before you could tune any more as you were having issues. Like I said, this is directly from YOUR customer.
you mean like so?
everytime someone wants something from you, you dance around the fire...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, December 10, 2009 10:20 PM
Ah, I know this one! Now that I've seen it, I would LOVE to address this, lol!
Where did that quote come from? Oh, this is going to be so fun!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, December 10, 2009 10:27 PM
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
Why are you bashing Bill about Customer Service? I haven't noticed anything EXCEPT great customer service. They have always been pleasant to talk to, and have offered great advice.
I e-mailed both him and his tech's back and forth multiple times, asking EASY, DUMB questions that MOST people on here would already know. Anything from boost gauge issues, to "hey man, is this the right way to hook up my boost controller?" (which I may add, BOTH aren't included in the kit)
So, he could have totally said "figure it out yourself, it's not included in the kit...it's your own parts"....but he didn't. I received EXCELLENT customer service, with an utmost level of confidence and courteousness towards the problem.
This whole thread isn't about engine mounts and personal grudges! Are you a mechanic? Do you own a company that produces turbosystems for cars? You haven't even been alive as long as he's been doing this, and yet you're trying to show us that your E-Dick is bigger than his...wtf man?
Anti-Sleeve Thats what she sed wrote:ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 wrote:A local who you just built a turbo kit for his HHR said you did the same thing to him. He asked questions and you told him, "I don't have time to train you to understand all of the nuances." . WTF kind of professional does that? This guy just paid you some major coin and you can't hlep him understand more about what you did to his vehicle? Now I will also tell you he is not happy with the tune and something along the lines that you told him that he needed to buy a boost gauge before you could tune any more as you were having issues. Like I said, this is directly from YOUR customer.
you mean like so?
everytime someone wants something from you, you dance around the fire...
QFT because I can't find this quote anywhere else in this thread...?
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
Ah thanks! Tell you what I am so willing to do...I will start a new thread to deal with this very subject. I think you will find it informative and eye-opening.
In it, we'll also address why you and your friends are so interested in tearing me down that you'll suspend any benefit of the doubt for me in favor of taking the word of a complete stranger. A complete stranger tells one of you this story, and without hesitation, you all are ready to tear down a member of your fraternity (me) that's been supporting your car platform for years. There's something very wrong with that, and we're going to find out just what it is
I am very much looking forward to dissecting this entire subject...in great detail.
For now, fair warning...I will ignore any more posts that take this thread off target.
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
Thats fine, ill just go back to my cronies who build their cars in their garages on their own and have no problems with driving them on the street.
why is your word better than his? because you have been supporting j's? why do i hear of some people not happy with your intake manifold so they are going to other people to explore better options? you going to call them a liar as well? so everyone that says anything that doesnt agree with you is a liar?
are you wrong on the 14.7 @ WOT for trucks? im not saying you are, im not saying you are not. i just want proof. we live in a world now where proof is key. i can say i have this pill that makes you lose 20 lbs in a week. i dont have proof but i have a pill. peoples words dont carry much weight anymore. thats just how the world is now. take it or leave it. you said it yourself, times are changing, and so are peoples view on information.
Anti-Sleeve Thats what she sed wrote:are you wrong on the 14.7 @ WOT for trucks? im not saying you are, im not saying you are not. i just want proof. we live in a world now where proof is key. i can say i have this pill that makes you lose 20 lbs in a week. i dont have proof but i have a pill. peoples words dont carry much weight anymore. thats just how the world is now. take it or leave it. you said it yourself, times are changing, and so are peoples view on information.
No problem! I've contacted Bill at HPTuners. I told him you'll be in touch, as you have some questions about WOT fueling on late model trucks. Please PM me your email address.
If you won't take the word of an established industry pioneer, perhaps you'll take the word of an employee of a tuning company. Please though, be professional and courteous...do not ask him to "prove" it to you. He'd likely just tell you the same thing I have:
You don't believe it? Scan a truck and see for yourself 
Oh, and if you'd prefer not to contact him directly in your crusade to "prove me wrong", just click this link instead:
HPTuners and WOT PE Delay
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
as well i have a word into my contact there as well. im sure bill will prove it with his strict knowledge on tuning vehicles. im sure he will also provide me with links and resources as well.
Edit: while you are emailing him, ask them to unlock more tables for our ecu as well. many of us have requested it but nothing ever came of it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:12 PM
Anti-Sleeve Thats what she sed wrote:Edit: while you are emailing him, ask them to unlock more tables for our ecu as well. many of us have requested it but nothing ever came of it.
x2
Save your money. It might be worth something someday.
RaRe5SpD wrote:Anti-Sleeve Thats what she sed wrote:Edit: while you are emailing him, ask them to unlock more tables for our ecu as well. many of us have requested it but nothing ever came of it.
x2
x3
That's a topic for a WHOLE 'nother thread. The LNF guys can't even coerce HPTuners for more support, we may as well forget about it - what we have is it!
@ Bill - I know you are trying to defend yourself here, but you are simply digging a hole. The banter is creating opinions on you and your business, regardless if you are right or wrong.
@ Anti-Sleeved -> If Bill is wrong, go out and prove him wrong. You two are battling between "Who" is going to obtain the "evidence". From a personal standpoint, if I'm going to call somebody out, I would be doing my research before posting. If you are wrong, then you are going to look horrible and lose credibility. If you happen to be right, then kudos and +1.
Several people should be ashamed of themselves on this thread. The point of a forum board is to learn, understand, collaborate, and address issues.
(On a personal note/opinion, Hahn has never steered me in the wrong direction and has been overly helpful whenever I've asked.)
Josh
SLK 32
LYC wrote:
@ Anti-Sleeved -> If Bill is wrong, go out and prove him wrong.
i never said he was wrong, i just wanted proof of what he was saying.
LYC wrote:@ Bill - I know you are trying to defend yourself here, but you are simply digging a hole. The banter is creating opinions on you and your business, regardless if you are right or wrong.
@ Anti-Sleeved -> If Bill is wrong, go out and prove him wrong. You two are battling between "Who" is going to obtain the "evidence". From a personal standpoint, if I'm going to call somebody out, I would be doing my research before posting. If you are wrong, then you are going to look horrible and lose credibility. If you happen to be right, then kudos and +1.
Several people should be ashamed of themselves on this thread. The point of a forum board is to learn, understand, collaborate, and address issues.
(On a personal note/opinion, Hahn has never steered me in the wrong direction and has been overly helpful whenever I've asked.)
I think this post sums it up! First off, Bill I just got done driving 6+ hours to Ohio to see my family. I would have replied to you PM earlier and I still plan too.... Sleep is coming first. I in NO way came into this thread to attack you or your company. I am a fellow professional in this industry and all my business is done by word of mouth. Its not a secret that I don't post alot on here or on HPT's forums. When I read that you said it was okay to run a boosted car with a 14.7:1 afr I simply just about fell out of my chair. I had to re-read it over and over just to make sure I was reading what you were saying. When John called you out on it, you then brought up the LNF. As I stated before, Direct Injection is a whole different story. You then made your list about the newer/leaner industry "standard" and I then again pointed out that we are talking about boosted/forced induction cars (in this case, they were originally NA) . Then I presented my scenerio and asked for your "expert" opinion (which I have still not received in regard to my question/scenerio)..... All I am asking for is an answer.
Second, I am not sure if you know this Bill, but Vince and John pretty much hate each other! I don't think its a big secret either. What I find amusing and interesting is, is that they are both on the same page and agree with each other on almost everything in this thread. This tells me something. This should show you that this is not a "Anti Bill Hanh/Hanh RaceCraft" cult out to get you. The same question has been asked in many forms/ways, and you have yet to truley answer it with cold hard data/fact/equations. This is starting to get out of control, and like LYC said, you are just digging a bigger hole.
Next, I brought up your customer with the HHR. I also did not do this as an attack, but just as an example. In your PM you said I brought a stranger into this, but in reality he is not a stranger to me. I know him and believe it or not, I recommeded him to you when he asked me his thoughts. Bill, you are a very intelligent man, and you have been very sucessful in this industry.... That does not give you the right to come in here with the feeling that your sh!t does not stink. Sh!t stinks, Period! Now the reason I gave the scenerio the way I did is a very good one! I honestly believe that your turbo kits are some of the best out there. For someone just getting into this scence, its a no brainer to buy one of your kits because its probably the most complete kit out there. That is awesome and I applaud you for sticking with a dead/dying platform. Kudos! My point is that without the fuel mods, its not going to last and is going to go into meltdown mode very fast. Now with the delay set as high as it is, it does not mean its going 14.7:1 at WOT in boost. The FMU is going to fight that as you are introducing a load control device to the fuel system, thus richining up the mixture.... With that said, we now are not running WOT on a boosted application at a 14.7:1 AFR. If someone were to do that, they are simply playing with a bomb ready to go off without notice.
These are the type of answers we are looking for.... This is Theory and Reality!
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
Post Removed for inaccuracy...Ryan intends to reply to my PM later.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Friday, December 11, 2009 2:36 PM
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
LYC wrote:@ Bill - I know you are trying to defend yourself here, but you are simply digging a hole. The banter is creating opinions on you and your business, regardless if you are right or wrong.
To quote a famous old Hollywood actor: Frankly, LYC, I don't give a damn.
This has been a long time coming, and I feel I've little, if anything, to lose. I'm done pandering to antagonistic, jealous "interests" who'd rather stick a knife in my back than act civilly and even benefit from my interaction in a decent forum.
For those who'd walk away with a negative impression of me for protecting my business, standing my ground and speaking my mind...good. They (and I) are probably both better off if we never do business.
LYC wrote:
(On a personal note/opinion, Hahn has never steered me in the wrong direction and has been overly helpful whenever I've asked.)
Thank you.
This is how we work: we take care of those who take care of us...and this is a much more numerous group than many would ever realize, judging by the threads I've reviewed
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
I'm going to wait to reply to ImPhat's post until he's had a chance to return my PM. Stay tuned!
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
Sorry work has me in California, and have not been about to be online. I have not rear every post yet, but a few.
Bill I can say you are wrong on the GM Trucks and 14:7:1 at WOT. How?? My dad has a 2005 Silverado 4.8 truck. I tuned it with HPT. When I started logging it and was pulling mid 11's for AFR's. It had a much leaner target, but still ran much richer. Seen this in many GM's.
Bill I still ask proof of your statements. You claim we must prove you wrong. Why? I do not have to. until you prove your self correct what you say means nothing. I have yet to be able to find anything online showing a trend to 14:7:1 AFR"s in PE modes for cars. I think since you know the info is not out there you feel we can't prove you wrong, but you also can't prove yourself right. There is proof of running richer AFR's as being the bench mark, so that seems the correct info.
I likely will not be back on until Monday.
FU Tuning
It's the PE delay, not the PE mode. The delay keeps them in closed loop...as I've said before, you won't find PE settings for stoichiometry, lol. The trucks with the long delays never
enter PE.
Did you review Bill from HPTuner's reply in the link I provided?
Can you refute my findings on the Toyotas? Split Second and the Boosted Yaris?
I doubt you'll be any more ready to do so on Monday either...but you'll sure talk a lot again, of that I am sure
I'm not replying to any more of your own "closed loop" (and closed mind!) repetitiveness until you answer those questions. And if you still avoid them, and have to just again stamp your foot on the ground and INSIST it comes down to my word against yours...I still win
Don't make me show you why that is once again...it seems to really anger you, lol!
John, its cool. You won't accept it, for your ego and misplaced pride won't let you. You'd rather look like a fool now than ever admit you're wrong. It matters not to me. Impressing you is my lowest priority. Nonetheless, here's the deal...should you try to talk down our product ever again for this, or any other misplaced notion, I'll be there. I'll show this all again. You'll prolly scream that it can't be true again. You'll sic your equally doddering buddies on me again. And again, I will prevail
See you then!
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
I boost, therefore I am wrote:
Can you refute my findings on the Toyotas? Split Second and the Boosted Yaris?
You'd rather look like a fool now than ever admit you're wrong.
can you prove your findings?
and for that last statement, pot meet kettle? and if you are not wrong... then prove it. prove it with more than just your words.
BuiltNBoosted wrote:I boost, therefore I am wrote:
Can you refute my findings on the Toyotas? Split Second and the Boosted Yaris?
You'd rather look like a fool now than ever admit you're wrong.
can you prove your findings?
and for that last statement, pot meet kettle? and if you are not wrong... then prove it. prove it with more than just your words.
Say, how did that session with Bill at HPTuners go? Did you tell him to "prove it" too?
Let me know when you want to get with those Toyota and/or Split Scond folks. My offer still stands. See how cooperative I am?
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
I boost, therefore I am wrote:BuiltNBoosted wrote:I boost, therefore I am wrote:
Can you refute my findings on the Toyotas? Split Second and the Boosted Yaris?
You'd rather look like a fool now than ever admit you're wrong.
can you prove your findings?
and for that last statement, pot meet kettle? and if you are not wrong... then prove it. prove it with more than just your words.
Say, how did that session with Bill at HPTuners go? Did you tell him to "prove it" too?
Let me know when you want to get with those Toyota and/or Split Scond folks. My offer still stands. See how cooperative I am?
still have never seen anything to back your words up...
You make this so fun!
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
So, after all that, you DIDN'T get with Bill? You mean I wasted my time setting that up? lol, how did I know THIS would happen?
Did you at least click the link and look at his words? Here it is again for your crow-eating convenience:
Bill at HPTuners confirms long PE delays and WOT 14.7:1 AFRs on GM trucks
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Saturday, December 12, 2009 11:05 PM
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
