Cable wrote:GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:Nick: #1: comparing market value vs. market shares makes poor financial sense.
oh boy... glad you are not my money man. - It all matters, its all relative; you have to look at everything, and more than any chart, you need to see the big picture. not just about this, but about anything.
Quote:The most recent stock split was in February... 2005. All the time? Not hardly. 10,000%, not evenclose unless you're talking about the original 1000 or so shares from Apple's IPO, in like 1978 or so.
Apple splits all the time, they are up something like 10,000% total its INSANE.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:
Also, look at the number of outstanding shares, Dell has over 2 billion shares. Apple's doesn't have a breakdown of market share as well (Apple is still under 15% of the total buying market, consumer and commercial).
Quote:Were you asleep or not paying attention when they tried to open their source architecture for development?
The only way they could ever really pull forward in a huge way is if Apple helped them by licensing osX to them. That would be about the only "innovative" thing they'd have in their future.
But trust me, Apple doesnt want Dell to ruin their image, EVEN IF IT MAKES them money in the short term, because they are no ones bitch.
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Why do you keep blathering on about pointless shares?
Dell's profits are on the slide. All it knows how to do is build Windows boxes, and the only differential it's had is price. But now the price war is hotting up.
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Meanwhile, Apple can differentiate itself and add value with its unique software. It's holding firm on its margins and diversifying into new media.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:
#2: Believing that your OS is invulnerable is a fool's game. Obscurity is not defacto security.
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Unix expert: Mac OS X much more secure than Windows; recent Mac OS X security stories are media hype
Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 09:25 AM EDT
http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/4136/937/
Quote:I've done it with former Mac owners, I'm sure your folks will be no trouble at all.
Can you give my mom and grandma a call please, and inform them as to how to 'hack' the registry.
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Wrong again. Except about where the problem is.
Why do you comment on things that you dont know to be fact?
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Just because Windows sucks doesnt mean that OSX sucks. get over it. and stop trying to tell people wich OS to use!! or not use.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:
You're talking about one PC manufacturer (which has to compete against 4 major manufacturers and also has to deal with an open architecture)... That was what I was getting at. Dell has greater market share than Apple in server and commercial PC sales and also has US Gov't. services contracts that allow them to work cross-platform. This isn't something Apple has. Also, if Intel cannot meet production, Apple's bubble will burst... Dell can shift to AMD for parts.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:
Apple is sitting high, no question, but they're having a good year this year... They don't have competition in their respective market, but that's not always an asset, bear that in mind.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:
The most recent stock split was in February... 2005. All the time? Not hardly. 10,000%, not evenclose unless you're talking about the original 1000 or so shares from Apple's IPO, in like 1978 or so.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:
Also, look at the number of outstanding shares, Dell has over 2 billion shares. Apple's doesn't have a breakdown of market share as well (Apple is still under 15% of the total buying market, consumer and commercial).
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:
Did you even read what I said?
Look at the number of shares outstanding for both companies.
Now, Look at the SHARE OF THE MARKET that Dell has. Please first, tell me where in the hell I said a word about margins, and then answer me who has greater share of the market?
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:
Were you asleep or not paying attention when they tried to open their source architecture for development?
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:
Apple's only a manufacturing short-fall away from deflation. Dell is more flexible.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:
Again, margins are great until there is a shortfall in supply. Did it escape you why Apple went to Intel for processors?
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:
Grade 4 teacher: learning to read and comprehend what you just read is important.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:
I've highlighted the important parts. If OSX reaches XPs market share, you're going to see a LOT of holes poked into it.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:
I've done it with former Mac owners, I'm sure your folks will be no trouble at all.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:I seem to have a computer engineering degree on my wall, and have done service support work for 3 major PC corporations, as well, I have Apple Certified Tech certs. I'm not an imbecile Nick. I know that there is NO SUCH THING as a perfect PC or Apple computer. You're not twigging that little nugget.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:The problem comes when you introduce the human factor... OSX has security vulnerabilities, just like XP. I'll give you that most people shouldn't run OSX as root, and in the same vein, neither should most XP users use the PC as an administrator. The problem, yet again, is 2 feet infront of the monitor. It seems that it takes a PERSON to make the security vulnerability in OSX and XP happen. That's a fact, chum. If people weren't in charge of setting up their own computers, things would be a lot simpler. OSX does what it does well, but the fact that less than 1 out of 5 users use OSX gives it a helluva advantage in the security front. It's only a matter of time before it gets popped open, by hook or by crook.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:Dude, I didn't tell anyone anywhere what to use. Don't put words into my mouth... It's beneath both you and me.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:I don't tout one OS over another. If you think I am, let me please address that misunderstanding. I'd rather have everyone using *nix, because then, you'd have to LEARN a few things before you start goofing off infront of the puter, and you'd also know enough to first avoid the pitfalls of the system, and second, fix the problem when it ocurred. I understand, however, that a lot of the digital revolution wouldn't have happened without Microsoft DOS, Windows, AND Mac OS. All have flaws, and the biggest flaw is between the chair and keyboard, always has been, always will be (see: Social engineering hacks and Kevin Mitnick)
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:You're going to have to learn to not infer something, and just take what's on the screen as what is being said.
Cable wrote:Why do you comment on things that you dont know to be fact?LOL - Are YOU telling GAM not to tell people which OS to use?! Then exactly what have you been doing?
Just because Windows sucks doesnt mean that OSX sucks. get over it. and stop trying to tell people wich OS to use!! or not use.
the page you linked wrote:Zymaris says that, while it is true that a Mac can get infected with a virus, it is not easy and it is not likely to cause much damage.Well the plane is the safest form of travel. Unlike you(with OSX) however, no one is saying that airplanes are crash-proof.
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get over it. and stop trying to tell people wich OS to use!! or not use.
Bastardking3000 wrote:Cable wrote:Why do you comment on things that you dont know to be fact?LOL - Are YOU telling GAM not to tell people which OS to use?! Then exactly what have you been doing?
Just because Windows sucks doesnt mean that OSX sucks. get over it. and stop trying to tell people wich OS to use!! or not use.
Now 1 of my links was from NBC. How about the others? OSX needs security updates - same as Windows. Apparently Norton Anti-virus makes it vulnerable to complete control - lol. Still that means the software makes it less secure. The very possibility of software doing that means its not secure at the core. If Norton can do that by accident, why can't a virus writer do that intentionally(not to mention more efficently)?
the page you linked wrote:Zymaris says that, while it is true that a Mac can get infected with a virus, it is not easy and it is not likely to cause much damage.Well the plane is the safest form of travel. Unlike you(with OSX) however, no one is saying that airplanes are crash-proof.
While planes are still the safest form of travel statistically, and OSX is (currently) statistically safer than Windows in terms of danger of infection, neither are perfect, they are both far from it.
OSX is fairly secure - unless the user is stupid
Windows is fairly secure - unless the user is stupid
A user who knows the difference between a keyboard and a kettle will not get infected - despite the OS they use. The choice comes down to preference. I prefer Windows, some prefer OSX. You really need toQuote:
get over it. and stop trying to tell people wich OS to use!! or not use.
Cable wrote:
The tides are turning, and intel has never had 'real' production issues.
Apple can shift to AMD now too... most people running the hacked osx86 are actually running it on AMDs. Trust me Apple has employees working very close with AMD, and AMD has an Apple lab, just like Intel has had an Apple lab for the last ~5 years.
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wich market are you speaking of? the ipod market? they have more competition now than ever, its juse no one wants anything but an iPod because well; everything else just doesnt compare. - If you are talking about the PC market; nevermind, you couldnt possibly have meant that, because they have like 4%; Apple does a lot of stuff, and everything they do, from hardware, and software, to audio and video distrobution they do well.
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'All the time' is a relative term, when it comes to stock splits your lucky if 'All the time' means once per year. - yah, when I said up 10,000% I meant from the very early days - That would be one hell of a return investment if you were able to get in back then - DAMN!
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'outstanding shares' = people not buying or people having sold.
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Outstanding Shares
Stock currently held by investors, including restricted shares owned by the company's officers and insiders as well as those held by the public. Shares that have been repurchased by the company are not considered outstanding stock. They are also known as "issued shares" or "issued and outstanding".
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Share volume is the 'more important' number.
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Good margins is one of the things that made Apple worth more than Dell.
Dell has a bigger slice of the PC market, isnt that sad considering Apple has more money in the Bank, and is Worth a billion dollars more in market value?
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tried? you mean succeeded under contract. And when the contracts ran out they refused to renew them to regain total control.
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News flash, Dell is the one thats already been deflated. Apple is more flexible imo.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:
Again, intel doesnt have supply issues, if anything they have over supply issues, they have so many fabs its ri-dick-u-lus.
It looks like it escapes you as to why they switched; I'll list the reasons. Availability is NOT one of them.
1. More efficient power consumption therefore simpler cooling solutions will work.
2. Switching to x86 opens up their CPU options to AMD, transmeta, VIA, etc.
3. Cost of the chips are much less than the IBM G5 and Motorolla G4 chips.
4. Faster!; IBM and Motorolla can not give them anything close to the speed intel can.
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okay, now your just being an ass.
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So you got the winning lotto numbers for me too? since you can tell the future and all.
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Thats gross! - I was just playing the devils advocate anyway, they dont need to know how to hack their registry, they are already on Macs. - no reboots, no reinstalls, no spyware, no viruses, no problems, no @!#$.
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Good for you; for as smart as you say you are you sure are close minded. and hypocrytical.
Quote:I never SAID that anyone should be treated that way. No one is born knowing how to run (well, Chuck Norris and Jesus aside), we've all been at the point of being a computer neophyte... and some of us have been burned, and learned from it.
Just because most comptuer users are stupid doesnt mean that they should be treated like they are, and for that reason alone the software and OS NEEDS to be bulletproof, and designed to be easy to use for ANYONE. Thats why All Apple software works the way it does, so 'most' people can use it and not screw things up.
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If people run their machine as root, of if they click on somehting they shouldnt hopefully they will learn their lesson, but no matter what, on todays internet you are inherantly safer on OSX.
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No one wants to have to type anything to use a comptuer, or research anything, or memorize anything, or spend time setting somehting up etc.. what most people want is for the computer to read their mind and do exactly what they want. While thats not going to happen anytime soon, OSX gives you the closest you can get to that expierence.
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GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:You're going to have to learn to not infer something, and just take what's on the screen as what is being said.
Word.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:I have had both, and haven't yet played with the new intel based ones... I think I'm going to have to get one to see what the fuss is about... it's just going to be a PITA because I need to make space for it...
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till we had to have the Geek Squad come out herer and re install windows on all of them.
Hahahaha wrote:Geek Squad must suck too. I've been doing PC service for 15 years or so and have never met a virus I couldn't beat. Re-installing Windows is an admission of defeat. If you know how the OS woprks, and you have a couple free tools, you can kill just about any virus, at least reder them powerless. It wasn't there before, it came in, it's up to you to throw it out.
PAX
Hahahaha wrote:Well, without getting into all the technical stuff, your PC should not have been affected either.
There are reasons, but without getting into all the technical stuff, suffice to say that INTEL based PCs have about 80% market share, then comes AMD, Mac, Caruso, PowerPC, Alfa, and all the rest. To say that Mac doesn't quite have 15% market share would be like calling someone who is 6ft tall and 80lbs kinda skinny
It's not even close, and there are reasons.
PAX
Hahahaha wrote:OK, to be clear, you can no longer buy Alfas but they are still in use. The Transmetta game is coming up short, so I'm not sure about Caruso.
Hahahaha wrote:The 80% market share in PC for Intel was before any Intel based Mac shipped, that number may be altered accordingly. My point is that Macs do not have 15% market share, it's not possible. If Intel has 80% and AMD has about 7% and the rest is divided between the rest of the players, there's no room in my math for Apple to have 15%. See? No, there is no "Mac" processor, but I didn't want to put IBM in there a few times and mention Motorola while I'm at it. Take a pill. And yes, IBM does still make CPUs, they just don't get used in PCs anymore.. Heck, they didn't really before either. After being in this business as long as I have I could run a list all day, but it wouldn't be constructive would it?
Hahahaha wrote:I have run a PC for years without taking any extraordinary actions to protect it, using free tools and directly connected to the internet without any routing or firewalling hardware and have never had a virus, ever. Keep you OS up to date, use a desent anti-virus package and be a bit scrupulous in where you visit with a web browser and you'll have no trouble. Get an e-mail from someone you've never heard of, don't open the attachment, for God's sake, how long does it take to get that message out there?
Hahahaha wrote:You should not buy a PC based on perceived vulnerabilities (all infections can be cleaned) that may never affect you anyway. You should buy the best machine for the task you have. For Mac, I'd say about 1/2 of their users are actually exploiting what a Mac is good for. The rest buy them because of brand loyalty and percieved coolness. Heck, some spend thousands just to be different. That's plain stupid.
Hahahaha wrote:9 times out of 10, the best machine for the job is a PC runnings Windows. Sorry to say, but it's true. I am certainly no windows lover but because of office interoperability, communications and information exchange, along with installed software base, there really isn't a better choice, most of the time. Keep in mind that the vast majority of machines are used in a business environment. While the home PC segment is large, it is nothing compaired to business, peanuts really. Our business could never sell another home PC and not even lay off one person, it's that small in comparison.
PAX