Bush Hasn't been to war. He didn't finish his service.

Before you start pointing the finger elsewhere, justify your stance.

Let's put it this way:
- Bush hasn't finished the job in Afghanistan (where Bin Laden actually WAS)
- Iraq (another Bush/republican idea) is falling apart piece by piece, there is still no Iraqi Constitution.
- The Ports Deal
- Not one child left behind, great idea, no funding or follow through...
- US economy, got the best one in 50 years, and ran it into the ground... literally by doing NOTHING.
- Allowed energy prices to skyrocket, and stay artificially high without doing anything to mitigate it (meaning using the Strategic oil reserve for a ready energy source to SELL instead of "loan")


These are all things that have been screwed up by Bush and the republicans alone... with the exception of the Economy, which the Executive branch only has parenthetical control over (influencing consumer spending by adjusting taxation), Bush alone has over seen 6 years of utter train wrecks.

Name me one thing that's been done by the Republican administrations that has actually been on time, on the mark and not more or less imploded.

The only thing that you could possibly point at is the Income Tax break, but given that it came at a time of war (or major operations, pick your pseudonym), does it not seem a little moronic to do this? How does a country finance a war with less taxes? Before you answer also consider: if a consumer has a little more money to spend, and you also drop taxes on industry (which pays less than $0.12 of each tax dollar the government takes in remember... down from $0.14 in 1998), how is this going to pay for the expense of conducting operations in a foreign country?

Also, wasn't it a Republican Congress and Senate that passed a balanced budget law? Am I on crazy pills? Wasn't there also balanced budgets and *gosh* surplusses in 2000?

Please, Gabe, answer these before you start trying to duck and cover and blame Clinton for all the ills that befell Americans in the last 6 years.

Bush is getting the blame because it's his damned responsibility. Giving him an out by blaming his predecessor is the ultimate Communist maneuver (LOOK IT UP).




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

I'd like to make 1 thing clear...

I'm not heralding Clinton and demonizing Bush....i'm demonizing them both.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

i'm not blaming clinton i'm just trying to get y'all two look at both before crushing one. if you remember even your top guy if your going to go that road john kerry voted yes to just about everything you just but up on the board. don't let your hatred blind you.

haha cool i just relized the edit button when did we get that option?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, October 10, 2006 2:37 PM

Rabid Racoon (Gabe) wrote:i'm not blaming clinton i'm just trying to get y'all two look at both before crushing one. if you remember even your top guy if your going to go that road john kerry voted yes to just about everything you just but up on the board. don't let your hatred blind you.

haha cool i just relized the edit button when did we get that option?

Again, seriously, what in the world does Kerry or Clinton have to do with Bush mistakes?

Sure, Kerry voted for lots of things after 9/11. Difference now is Kerry knows that "staying the course" on a broken path is silly. Most Americans realize that, that's why Bush's approval rating is 33%...

.. lower than Clinton's EVER was.

And I'll tell you what, I wasn't exactly too fond of Clinton towards the end, either. But I'll take cummed on blue dress over this crap ANY DAY.


---

Can you dry clean the government?




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

Rabid Racoon (Gabe) wrote:when is the last time a leader of a country went to war and actually fought in the war?? remember its Clinton that could be tried for acts against humanity not Bush. I just find it funny how you all can find every crease in bushs pants yet clinton even if he did supposably do such a great job yet screwed up alot can be given the blind eye. why not judge the teo equally if it comes to your hatred against bush.

Yes Bush can/should be tried for such things - but Clinton? I don't necessarily doubt you but I know nothing of Clinton (commiting/consenting to) "crimes against humanity" etc. I would authentically like to know - but I would also like reputable sources to back this up too.

Rabid Racoon (Gabe) wrote:i'm not blaming clinton i'm just trying to get y'all two look at both before crushing one. if you remember even your top guy if your going to go that road john kerry voted yes to just about everything you just but up on the board.

Just because many of us oppose Bush - doesn't make us Democrats. Get that @!#$ out of your head. "your top guy" - Kerry wasn't anyone's "top guy" as much as he was the Democratic presidental canidate - and how he became the Democratic presidental canidate is beyond me anyways. But to me(and alot of people), he was the guy who couldn't possibly be as bad as Bush. He was the "best of the worst." But seriously, screw that "you oppose Bush so Kerry is your leader" BS - he isn't even the democratic "leader" currently, and sure as hell isn't/wasn't the leader of all who oppose Bush.

Also - no matter how bad you think Clinton was, Kerry would have been, etc - none of that negates what Bush has done/will do. Ever heard "two wrongs don't make a right?" Someone else's wrongs does not excuse you for your wrongs. I wonder if the next president will get the luxury of people saying "Well at least he's no Bush."

I don't want a president that "isn't as bad as Bush" (although at this point I might settle lol) - I want a president that is actually GOOD - not that I'm holding my breath...




I've never heard of this "part throttle" before. Does it just bolt on?

Rabid Racoon (Gabe) wrote:when is the last time a leader of a country went to war and actually fought in the war?? remember its Clinton that could be tried for acts against humanity not Bush. I just find it funny how you all can find every crease in bushs pants yet clinton even if he did supposably do such a great job yet screwed up alot can be given the blind eye. why not judge the teo equally if it comes to your hatred against bush.

Clinton more good than harm to the US while he was in office. Sure, he made a bunch of campaign promises that never came through, but so did Bush and most elected officials.
OK, here's why I favored life in America under the Clinton admin, and I'm a republican...

Clinton: USS Cole attacked, guilty parties tried and currently in jail.
Bush: 9/11, Osama blamed, he's still free.

Clinton: Unemployment low
Bush: Unemployment high

Clinton: no war
Bush: a war no one understand the real reasons why we're there.

Clinton: reduced national debt
Bush: Spending billions every day for this war in Iraq.

Clinton: Lied to get in office, lied while in office.
Bush: Lied to get in office, lied while in office.
(equally guilty here.)

Clinton: Made a fortune illegally with underhanded real estate deals, etc.
Bush: Is making a fortune from the oil price increases, oil lobby money, etc.

Clinton: Stained a blue dress with his seed
Bush: Stained Iraq with his greed.
(sorry, had a "Don King" moment here)

Clinton: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman"
Bush: "Weapons of mass distruction"
(again, both are full of it, but which had a worse end result? One was a drycleaning bill, the other had global impact.)

Life in America was generally better when Clinton was in office. Both are rotten liars, both did things to pad their wallets, but Clinton did it without the senseless war like Bush has done.
That's why I favor Clinton over Bush. I can overlook a few indiscretions from someone who is looking out for my best interests. Bush isn't looking out for anyone but himself.

.




John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto

One other thing:

Clinton: decreased domestic crime rates every year in office (added funding for 100,000 more police in about 1994 IIRC)
Bush: has yet to decrease crime any year in office.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:One other thing:

Clinton: decreased domestic crime rates every year in office (added funding for 100,000 more police in about 1994 IIRC)
Bush: has yet to decrease crime any year in office.

Yep, that too. We could do this all day.

My point was that it's easy to overlook flaws in the president when he's doing good things for the country. IMHO, Bush hasn't done any good for the country, unless you're a wealthy oil investor or someone who produces equipment for the war machine.

.


John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto

bush is definitely one of those good for nothing presidents america gets once in a while. hopefully, we can get someone that will repair all the damage caused sometime in the near future.

clinton was no angel either, but he's the lesser of the two evils.

Quote:
"'We're not inflicting pain on these @!#$s,' Clinton said, softly at =
first. 'When people kill us, they should be killed in greater numbers.' =
Then, with his face reddening, his voice rising, and his fist pounding =
his thigh, he leaned into Tony [Lake], as if it was his fault. 'I =
believe in killing people who try to hurt you. And I can't believe we're =
being pushed around by these two-bit pricks'" -- Former Pres. Bill =
Clinton responding to the news that US troops were under attack by =
Somali gunmen. Quoted by George Stephanopoulos in 'All Too Human.




Quote:
Genocide in Iraq. 'Clinton's policy of sanctions on Iraq, supplemented =
intense regular bombing attacks that have often resulted in massive =
civilian casualties. UNICEF reports that in 1999 more than 1 million =
Iraqi children under 5 were suffering from chronic malnutrition, and =
some 4,000-5,000 children are dying per month beyond normal death rates =
from the combination of malnutrition and disease. Death from disease was =
greatly increased by the shortage of potable water and medicines, that =
has led to a 20-fold increase in malaria (among other ailments). This =
vicious sanctions system, causing a creeping extermination of a people, =
has already caused more than a 1.5 million excess deaths, and it is =
claimed by John and Karl Mueller that Clinton's "sanctions of mass =
destruction" have caused "the deaths of more people in Iraq than have =
been slain by all so-called weapons of mass destruction [nuclear and =
chemical] throughout all history" (Foreign Affairs, May/June 1999). '




War against Yugoslavia. 'One of the notable features of the Clinton's =
war against Yugoslavia was the gradual extension of targeting to =
civilian infrastructure and civilian facilities-therefore civilians who =
would be in houses, hospitals, schools, trains, factories, power =
stations, and broadcasting facilities. Two months after the war was =
over, the BBC "revealed" that the attack on Yugoslav television on April =
23 was part of an escalation of NATO bombing whereby the target list was =
extended to non-military objectives; Nato was "taking off the gloves." =
According to Yugoslav authorities, 60 percent of NATO targets were =
civilian, including 33 hospitals and 344 schools, as well as 144 major =
industrial plants and a large petro-chemical plant whose bombing caused =
a pollution catastrophe. John Pilger noted that the list of civilian =
targets included "housing estates, hotels, libraries, youth centres, =
theatres, museums, churches and 14th century monasteries on the World =
Heritage list. Farms have been bombed and their crops set afire." There =
can be little doubt that Yugoslavia finally agreed to a military exit =
from Kosovo mainly because they recognized that, although their forces =
had not been defeated on the battlefield, the NATO strategy of attacking =
civilian targets in violation of international law, was subject to no =
limits.' (Ed Herman, 2000) The bombings resulted in the deaths of up to =
4000 civilians.



http://archives.lists.indymedia.org/imc-print/2001-May/003050.html





MY HOW people have SHORT MEMORIES


Quote:
A panel of 16 judges from 11 countries at a people’s tribunal meeting in New York June 10 before 500 people found U.S. and NATO political and military leaders guilty of war crimes against Yugoslavia in the March 24-June 10, 1999 assault on that country. Former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark, the lead prosecutor at the International Tribunal on U.S./NATO War Crimes Against Yugoslavia, urged those present and those they represented from the 21 countries participating to carry out a sentence of organizing a campaign to abolish the NATO military pact.



http://www.zpub.com/un/clark.html

Rabid Racoon (Gabe) wrote:Quote:
"'We're not inflicting pain on these @!#$s,' Clinton said, softly at first. 'When people kill us, they should be killed in greater numbers.' Then, with his face reddening, his voice rising, and his fist pounding his thigh, he leaned into Tony [Lake], as if it was his fault. 'I believe in killing people who try to hurt you. And I can't believe we're
being pushed around by these two-bit pricks'" -- Former Pres. Bill Clinton responding to the news that US troops were under attack by Somali gunmen. Quoted by George Stephanopoulos in 'All Too Human.

I haven't read the book. I'd like to hear what Tony Lake has to say about it.

Quote:

Genocide in Iraq. 'Clinton's policy of sanctions on Iraq, supplemented intense regular bombing attacks that have often resulted in massive civilian casualties. UNICEF reports that in 1999 more than 1 million Iraqi children under 5 were suffering from chronic malnutrition, and some 4,000-5,000 children are dying per month beyond normal death rates from the combination of malnutrition and disease. Death from disease was
greatly increased by the shortage of potable water and medicines, that has led to a 20-fold increase in malaria (among other ailments). This vicious sanctions system, causing a creeping extermination of a people, has already caused more than a 1.5 million excess deaths, and it is claimed by John and Karl Mueller that Clinton's "sanctions of mass destruction" have caused "the deaths of more people in Iraq than have been slain by all so-called weapons of mass destruction [nuclear and chemical] throughout all history" (Foreign Affairs, May/June 1999). '

Here's a tip...
1: read a little more... IRAQ was uner UN sanction. The sanctions on Dual Use technology (which was actually penned by GHW Bush's administration in 1992, and ascented to by all on the security council) included Water Purification technologies. (Read Naked In Baghdad, look for it on Amazon, I can't search it @ work now)
2: Even if the water purification stations HAD been working at full steam, there weren't nearly enough to service Iraqis.
3: Even if there were enough purification stations to service all Iraqis, the majority of the water pipelines are above ground, plastic, and in the poorer sections of most cities, the denizens tend to break into the pipes to get water because the pressure was so low they'd fill buckets instead of using the taps.

Quote:

War against Yugoslavia. 'One of the notable features of the Clinton's war against Yugoslavia was the gradual extension of targeting to civilian infrastructure and civilian facilities-therefore civilians who would be in houses, hospitals, schools, trains, factories, power stations, and broadcasting facilities. Two months after the war was over, the BBC "revealed" that the attack on Yugoslav television on April 23 was part of an escalation of NATO bombing whereby the target list was extended to non-military objectives; Nato was "taking off the gloves."
According to Yugoslav authorities, 60 percent of NATO targets were civilian, including 33 hospitals and 344 schools, as well as 144 major industrial plants and a large petro-chemical plant whose bombing caused a pollution catastrophe. John Pilger noted that the list of civilian targets included "housing estates, hotels, libraries, youth centres, theatres, museums, churches and 14th century monasteries on the World Heritage list. Farms have been bombed and their crops set afire." There can be little doubt that Yugoslavia finally agreed to a military exit from Kosovo mainly because they recognized that, although their forces had not been defeated on the battlefield, the NATO strategy of attacking civilian targets in violation of international law, was subject to no
limits.' (Ed Herman, 2000) The bombings resulted in the deaths of up to 4000 civilians.

It's the same thing (to a different degree, lower population) as in Iraq. The paramilitary officers wore next to nothing denoting rank in the field, and mixed in with civillians... and, many of the civillians were well armed either because of, or in reaction to, the irregular military presence.

Also, bare in mind that most operations NATO carried out (*as I remember, Canada had a large command role, as well as Britain and Germany) in Fmr. Yugoslav republics were done to keep factional violence at a minimum.

Iraq will probably stabilise into that kind of a conflict, but who knows for certain now.

Quote:


http://archives.lists.indymedia.org/imc-print/2001-May/003050.html
MY HOW people have SHORT MEMORIES


Quote:
A panel of 16 judges from 11 countries at a people’s tribunal meeting in New York June 10 before 500 people found U.S. and NATO political and military leaders guilty of war crimes against Yugoslavia in the March 24-June 10, 1999 assault on that country. Former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark, the lead prosecutor at the International Tribunal on U.S./NATO War Crimes Against Yugoslavia, urged those present and those they represented from the 21 countries participating to carry out a sentence of organizing a campaign to abolish the NATO military pact.

http://www.zpub.com/un/clark.html

Ramsey Clark was strangely quiet about LBJ's War crimes in Vietnam...
Also: Worth reading especially the activism and former clients section.

BTW, the "people's Tribunal" which has no legal foundation, was talking about a NATO action, not a Clinton action, as well, it's interesting that they would rather stand idly by while people are massacred in sectarian violence.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

everyones facts about bush i agree with for the same reason i just wish we had a president that could get a complete sentence out or prononce a big word without studdering, i want a president that makes me feel like a dumb $*# not someone i can relate too.