Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS! - Performance Forum

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Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Tuesday, April 12, 2005 5:37 AM
Check out this pic, a bit blurry because my $100 digicam doesn't take close up pics too well, even with the macro setting on. All I did was match the manifold to intake ports on my ecotec project head. I barely removed anything from the intake port side(head), maybe 1mm all around, not even. To match it from the manifold side, I took off about 6mm of material off the diameter all around! On the left is the "fixed" port, on the right is the stock craaaaap....



That's hella restrictive! Speaking of restrictive, don't get me started on the other end of the intake manifold, where the throttle body mounts. Needless to say, I fixed all the obstructions, and optimized the flow from that side also. I didn't get a chance to take a picture from that end, but any of you ecotec guys can pull off your throttle body and see what I'm talking about there.

I modestly estimate that I picked up at least 5whp, probably significantly more than that, from about 4000-6000rpm, seems to really haul ass once it gets up there now, with no detriment to low end. I'll be dyno testing my car again, once I get my p&p o/s valve project head on, and do something with the stock throttle body. Oh, and custom full mandrel 2.5" exhaust back from my soon to be installed Arospeed 4-2-1 header. I also am looking at getting a Fidanza flywheel, and a PCM reflash. That should all go nice with my AEM CAI, LZM cams, and Carcustoms pulley..

While I had the intake manifold off, I put a 8guage wire in between the starter and alternator(which has a 8guage already to the battery), because there's only a spindly 14 guage wire to the alternator, which is pretty bad. I'll put a 4guage directly between the battery and alternator, once I add a stereo.







Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Tuesday, April 12, 2005 5:44 AM
Do you estimate the 5 whp with or without the CAI?



Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Tuesday, April 12, 2005 10:45 AM
Is this port match to the stock head or a ported head?


2006 Cobalt SS I/H/E ZZP S2 HPT 2.8/60's Etc...13.8@105(I need to learn how to launch)
Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Tuesday, April 12, 2005 10:51 AM
id guess you didnt do much
for all i know those could be there to add turbulence so when it gets to the head it mixes w/ the fuel better



Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Tuesday, April 12, 2005 11:56 AM
yeah the port in the head is pretty small also


if the intake port is bigger than th ehead port , you just put a large wall inbetween them



gotta love people that dont think


also the small wire between the alt and the starter is a fuseable link









Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Tuesday, April 12, 2005 12:20 PM
what did ya use to cut it out, a dremmel or something?



Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Wednesday, April 13, 2005 6:25 AM
Ok, first of all, it's now MATCHED to the stock intake ports. You dumb@ss 97cavie, that is a RESTRICTION when the manifold is 3mm all around SMALLER than the head port. I don't get the IGNORANCE of people who don't know jack sh!t about what they are spewing, so stfu unless you know what the hell you are talking about! There is nothing there to add turbulence either, just smaller diameter, that's it. You guys obviously don't much about engine airflow characteristics, and cylinder head porting, which is what I'm also doing. I originally took my manifold off so that I could port match my project head to it. Turns out that the intake manifold had smaller ports than the stock head, which is unheard of! If you don't understand why that is bad, you shouldn't be posting in the performance forum, offering criticism. When I say there's a gain between 4-6000rpm, THERE IS A GAIN THERE. I drive my car every day, so I think I know what I'm talking about. I'm not going to go out and pay for a god damn dyno test every time I add a mod just to disprove all you ignorant skeptics! BTW the 5whp estimate is very modest, it added more than my crank pulley, and AEM CAI, at least in seat of the pants feel. The AEM CAI was dyno proven on my car to add 9whp, so you figure it out.



Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Wednesday, April 13, 2005 6:28 AM
Oh, and the 14 guage wire is the ONLY wire going to the positive terminal from the alternator, fusible link, WTF? That has to be the worst lowest tech fusible link I have ever seen! That's the only wire linking the alternator to the positive battery terminal. What's the point of running 4 guage power wire to a stereo system from a battery that is being charged from a 14 guage wire? MORE IGNORANCE! You guys need to learn to think.




Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Wednesday, April 13, 2005 7:12 AM
The alternator will only recharge the battery at a certain rate anyway, so adding a bigger wire won't necessarily make it charge any faster. It's not like the wire is restricting the flow of electricity. Running a wire that big probably won't help any unless you have a larger alternator.




Is that a...a...a... a Cavalier?
Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Wednesday, April 13, 2005 7:40 AM
Ok, enough fighting...

I started trimming those restrictions in the front of the intake manifold when I sent my TB out... What did you use to port match the i.m. with the head?




Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Wednesday, April 13, 2005 10:13 AM
04firetec wrote:

Ok, first of all, it's now MATCHED to the stock intake ports. You dumb@ss 97cavie, that is a RESTRICTION when the manifold is 3mm all around SMALLER than the head port. I don't get the IGNORANCE of people who don't know jack sh!t about what they are spewing, so stfu unless you know what the hell you are talking about! There is nothing there to add turbulence either, just smaller diameter, that's it. You guys obviously don't much about engine airflow characteristics, and cylinder head porting, which is what I'm also doing. I originally took my manifold off so that I could port match my project head to it. Turns out that the intake manifold had smaller ports than the stock head, which is unheard of! If you don't understand why that is bad, you shouldn't be posting in the performance forum, offering criticism. When I say there's a gain between 4-6000rpm, THERE IS A GAIN THERE. I drive my car every day, so I think I know what I'm talking about. I'm not going to go out and pay for a god damn dyno test every time I add a mod just to disprove all you ignorant skeptics! BTW the 5whp estimate is very modest, it added more than my crank pulley, and AEM CAI, at least in seat of the pants feel. The AEM CAI was dyno proven on my car to add 9whp, so you figure it out.
good job!


see ya!


Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Wednesday, April 13, 2005 11:07 AM
you are right about the intake matchin with ports to the head. but you are wrong about the fusible link on that wire. (it is a fusible link)

so you shut up with your ignorance about car electrical systems, and do some studying before you start spewin out your garbage.



-andy

'88 convt. sunbird GT turbo (project car)
'02 sunfire GT (daily driver)
email me
Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Wednesday, April 13, 2005 4:31 PM
04firetec do you have a stock thottle body?



Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Wednesday, April 13, 2005 4:36 PM
id be interested in seeing some close up pics of a stock manifold and stock head with measurements to see how much material can be taken off



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85





Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Wednesday, April 13, 2005 5:01 PM




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Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Wednesday, April 13, 2005 5:19 PM
"With plenty of boost, the GM team knew the stock scroll-type plastic intake manifold could flow sufficient air for 500 hp." that is off the NY J-body's web site, from an article on GM's building of the turbo eco drag motors. all technical info was supplied by the GM engineering team. this would lead me to think any gains by modifying the manifold would be minimal. but then again they are talking about a boosted application, which changes the variables considerably. however, being as the manifold is easy to remove(esp with the injectors in the head), and the good availability of them on ebay, ill have to consider getting one and doing this myself just for @!#$s and giggles. and you are right...i dont believe ive ever seen an intake, or exhaust manifold for that matter, with ports smaller than the head opening...id like to know the engineers reasoning for doing it. might have something to do with air charge velocity and mid range torque...they seem to like to do things to boost the mid range...some BS about "driveability"...essentially the reasons for the changes between the 2.2 and 2200 engines.


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Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Wednesday, April 13, 2005 10:28 PM
04firetec wrote:

Ok, first of all, it's now MATCHED to the stock intake ports. You dumb@ss 97cavie, that is a RESTRICTION when the manifold is 3mm all around SMALLER than the head port. I don't get the IGNORANCE of people who don't know jack sh!t about what they are spewing, so stfu unless you know what the hell you are talking about! There is nothing there to add turbulence either, just smaller diameter, that's it. You guys obviously don't much about engine airflow characteristics, and cylinder head porting, which is what I'm also doing. I originally took my manifold off so that I could port match my project head to it. Turns out that the intake manifold had smaller ports than the stock head, which is unheard of! If you don't understand why that is bad, you shouldn't be posting in the performance forum, offering criticism. When I say there's a gain between 4-6000rpm, THERE IS A GAIN THERE. I drive my car every day, so I think I know what I'm talking about. I'm not going to go out and pay for a god damn dyno test every time I add a mod just to disprove all you ignorant skeptics! BTW the 5whp estimate is very modest, it added more than my crank pulley, and AEM CAI, at least in seat of the pants feel. The AEM CAI was dyno proven on my car to add 9whp, so you figure it out.



first off the intake port is ok being slightysmaller than the head port and it is normal

2 your butt dyno doesnt mean diddly crap

3 with out porting the whole intake runner youd be very lucky to see and real gains in performance , which porting wouldbe hard due to the intake shape

4 you run a 4 gauge wire to the amp for different reasons , the biggest being the suden amp draw from the amp , and the distance it has to travel

ive got well over 25 years experence with cars and racing , and building motors







Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Thursday, April 14, 2005 4:22 AM
Rodimus, you want pictures, just look at the first pic, the port on the left is pretty much matched with the stock cylinder head port(less than 1mm larger to match my slight intake port job), and the one on the right is stock. 03Cavfire knows what I'm talking about on the other end of the intake manifold, underneath the throttle body. It's a mess under there! I used a high speed drill, and 2 different length carbide cutters to do the porting, same as what I'm using for my cylinder head project. As for port matching, it does make a difference to flow, even if the intake runners are the same diameter, which it actually looks like they are slightly larger up the port, than at the mating surface. Maybe it's to increase flow velocity at under 3000rpm for driveability, but it sure is restrictive over 5000rpm. Remember, this is all naturally aspirated flow, once you turn it into a positive pressure flow situation(turbo/supercharging), as opposed to a vacuum flow situation(n/a), it's a different ballgame. Sure the manifold can flow up to 500hp at 30psi, but at with negative vacuum pulling the air through, any inefficiencies in the airways will negatively affect airflow a lot more than in a positive pressure situation. As for throttle body, yes I am running the stock throttle body at the moment, but I am awaiting a shipment of something I am going to experiment with, that's all I'm going to say about that, until I find out if it will work or not.

As for the wire to the alternator, why is it that, in the Audio & Electronics forum, all the gurus there recommend upgrading the wire from the alternator to the battery, to prevent dimming headlights on cars with big audio systems. Obviously 14guage wire is not going to charge the battery fast enough to keep up with a big audio sytem's demands. On a stock electrical system, maybe it's not necessary to run that much current, but running a full 105amps(what my alternator's rated at) through 14 guage wire is like pissing through a pinhole, if you're drawing that much current. They say that if the lights are still dimming, to THEN upgrade the alternator, but the 14 guage wire does limit how fast the stock alternator can charge the battery when there's a big drain. If you don't agree, that's your perogative, but it makes sense to me.






Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Thursday, April 14, 2005 10:51 AM
I'm debating trying this. Either I'll see a gain or have a slightly lighter intake manifold... lol




Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Thursday, April 14, 2005 11:05 AM
i would dyno with every mod if I could...

i am amazed with your car.. every mod you've done your gains double even triple mine as well as other ecotec owners..


cams you got 15 whp

I got 1 whp, 4 tq, darkstars also wasnt 15, ohh3sunfire had huge problems with his as well

aem - you got 9 whp

I got 4

no offense just saying



LE61T PTE6262 Powered

Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Friday, April 15, 2005 4:29 AM
Once my next round of mods are done(head/exhaust mainly), I'll dyno test it again, at a different dyno this time. We'll see what's up then.





Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Friday, April 15, 2005 4:43 AM
04firetec wrote:

Oh, and the 14 guage wire is the ONLY wire going to the positive terminal from the alternator, fusible link, WTF? That has to be the worst lowest tech fusible link I have ever seen! That's the only wire linking the alternator to the positive battery terminal. What's the point of running 4 guage power wire to a stereo system from a battery that is being charged from a 14 guage wire? MORE IGNORANCE! You guys need to learn to think.

Quote:

so stfu unless you know what the hell you are talking about!


32 y/o talks like a 15 y/o in highschool
who uses this, i mean, c'mon, stfu?
i'll continue to listen to qbe and 97cavie, because i know they know more $hit than you do




My Cavillac

Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Friday, April 15, 2005 1:21 PM
UUMM i thought the fusible link was between the alternator and starter, not the battery??


<img src="http://www.j-body.org/registry/scoobyz24/personal_pic.jpg">

-Bryan Dube
Team Drop Zone
Vice President
Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Friday, April 15, 2005 1:35 PM
it goes from the alt to the starter , which then uses the batt cable to get from there to the battery


the fuseable link is just like a fuse your used to looking at , but in wire form


look a thow big the bar is that goes accross a wafer fuse that is with most 4 gauge wire kits , its thinner than the fuseable link







Re: Stock ECOTEC intake manifold SUCKS!
Saturday, April 16, 2005 2:47 PM
i am going to do this first thing in the morning


see ya!

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