2.4 Crankshaft relearn - Performance Forum

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2.4 Crankshaft relearn
Friday, July 11, 2008 5:11 AM
I just got my motor back and im getting ready to install it.. I had a post in 06 about this same subject when i did the 2.2<2.4 engine swap and I can NOT remember if this crank re-learn was needed or not.. Now I did get the re-learn done at a local shop with a Tech 2 back in 06.. But its almost bash time and im not sure if Ill have time to do this again.

Is it a must to have it done? if its not done, will the car still run correctly?











~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
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Re: 2.4 Crankshaft relearn
Friday, July 11, 2008 6:32 AM
depends, it is not necessary all the time, but COULD be necessary when changing cams, cam sensor, crank, crank sensor, engine, etc......it should run, but will throw the relearn code. You can do the relearn with HPT also, I dont know what you are tuning with.





Re: 2.4 Crankshaft relearn
Friday, July 11, 2008 6:35 AM
relearn? wtf?



Re: 2.4 Crankshaft relearn
Friday, July 11, 2008 6:44 AM
crank relearn, to relearn the synch between crank and cams basically.





Re: 2.4 Crankshaft relearn
Friday, July 11, 2008 7:04 AM
I have never had to do this on a 2.4. We have swapped motors out, rebuilt motors, and never had this issue. I sometimes wonder if it even exist's on a J.



FU Tuning



Re: 2.4 Crankshaft relearn
Friday, July 11, 2008 7:38 AM
^^ same here john, ive NEVER even heard of such a thing before now. never had an issue with any of the ld9's my dad n i have worked on. i dont think it even mentions anything of the sort in the haynes manual...





Re: 2.4 Crankshaft relearn
Friday, July 11, 2008 7:47 AM
Thanks guys..

John B. Im tuning with HPT.. I didnt know we could relearn crank with HPT.. Ill definately keep that it in mind if a code just so happens to pop up.

Brad yea when i did the swap 2 years ago I had it done just to be sure.. Hooked the Tech 2 up to it, and relearned it..










~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ
Re: 2.4 Crankshaft relearn
Friday, July 11, 2008 8:41 AM
weird, are there any advantages

is it just a CEL or does it not run right as well?



Re: 2.4 Crankshaft relearn
Friday, July 11, 2008 8:52 AM
When i got it done, my car wasnt running right.. I thought it was because of the crank, but the timing was actually off a little bit. lol.. It wouldnt stay started below 1500 rpm....











~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ
Re: 2.4 Crankshaft relearn
Saturday, July 12, 2008 1:10 AM
Doing it with HPT, is NOT the same as doing it with a TEC-II.......

but most of the time it is not needed. i think the only time is when you install a new ECM.

if you guys want, i can past the procedure from SI...

Chris


'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

Re: 2.4 Crankshaft relearn
Saturday, July 12, 2008 8:33 AM
sure, id like to see whats up, chris. si???




Re: 2.4 Crankshaft relearn
Saturday, July 12, 2008 9:25 AM
SI, GM word for Service Info...

Crankshaft Position System Variation Learn

Important: A crankshaft position (CKP) system variation learn procedure must be performed any time a change is made to the crankshaft sensor to crankshaft relationship. Changing the crank sensor to crankshaft relationship will not allow the powertrain control module (PCM) to detect misfire at all speeds and loads accurately, resulting in a possible false misfire diagnostic trouble code (DTC) being set.

Removing a part for inspection and then reinstalling the same part is considered a disturbance. A false DTC P0300 could be set if this procedure is not performed.

The learn procedure is required after the following service procedures have been performed, regardless of whether or not DTC P1336 is set:
A PCM replacement
An engine replacement
A crankshaft replacement
A CKP sensor replacement
Any engine repair which disturbs the crankshaft/harmonic balancer relationship to the crankshaft position sensor

A fully warmed up engine is critical to learning the variation correctly. If a valid learn occurs, no other learns can be completed on that ignition cycle.

If the engine cuts out before the specified learn procedure engine speed or at normal fuel cut-off RPM, the PCM is not in the learn procedure mode. Review the crankshaft position system variation learn procedure and re-enable the learn procedure. Verify that the scan tool displays Test in Progress.

Caution: Before performing the Crankshaft Position System Variation Learning Procedure always set the vehicle parking brake and block the drive wheels in order to prevent personal injury. Release the throttle immediately when the engine starts to decelerate in order to eliminate over revving the engine. Once the learn procedure is completed, the control module will return engine control to the operator and the engine will respond to the throttle position.

Important: The battery must be fully charged and in good condition. Verify that the scan tool connection at the data link connector (DLC) is clean and tight before starting the crankshaft position (CKP) system variation learn procedure.

1. Close the hood.
2. Block the drive wheels and set the vehicle parking brake.
3. Put the vehicle in Park or Neutral.
4. Turn all the accessories OFF.
5. Connect a scan tool.
6. Start and run the engine until the engine is at normal operating temperature 85C (185F).
7. With the engine still running, use the scan tool in order to enable the crankshaft position (CKP) system variation learn procedure.
8. Press and hold the brake pedal firmly and raise the engine speed to the specified value of 3,920 RPM, RELEASING the throttle as soon as the engine cuts out.
9. Verify with the scan tool that the crankshaft variation has been learned.

A fully warmed up engine is critical to learning the variation correctly. If a valid learn occurs, no other learns can be completed on that ignition cycle.

If the engine cuts out before the specified learn procedure engine speed or at normal fuel cut-off RPM, the PCM is not in the learn procedure mode. Review the crankshaft position system variation learn procedure and re-enable the learn procedure. Verify that the scan tool displays Test in Progress.

If the variation will not learn, perform this procedure up to 10 times.


Scan Tool Display


Possible Causes

Factors out of range


The reluctor wheel-machining quality, a run out, or an incorrect air gap.

Opposing factors out of range


Disturbance-Noise on the crank sensor circuit. Reattempt the Learn Procedure.

Sum out of range


The engine is too cold. Reattempt the Learn Procedure.

Crank pulse count error.


Crank or Cam sensor DTCs is set. Repair the affected DTC first






Ya, i thought you needed a TEC-II, we did this with Brian's car last year.... seemed to "smooth out" afterwards, LOL to bad we did it after the bash, and a month before it got hit.

Chris




'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

Re: 2.4 Crankshaft relearn
Saturday, July 12, 2008 9:56 AM
Hmm I actually wouldn't mind doing that... my car is on its second to me engine, and I've had a couple different crank pulleys on it now... going from the UO racing pulley back to the dampened high output pulley.

My car seems to idle pretty good and its dependable as hell, but it seems like it could run better for what I have done to it.

I'll have to ask around about who has a Tec-II up here.






Re: 2.4 Crankshaft relearn
Saturday, July 12, 2008 11:42 AM
would these 'DTC' codes harm performance??

ive never done this procedure on any of my cars... not one of them. my white car does not have the original block, OR crank...

so, HPT can do this then.. yes?



Re: 2.4 Crankshaft relearn
Saturday, July 12, 2008 11:58 AM
it can, all a DTC is, is a Displayed Trouble Code. so and you can have them in, but have no MIL\ CEL on.


we did it with HPT, with Brian's car, and really didn't do @!#$, did it when i had a Tec-II, and it seemed to run better.

Chris.


'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

Re: 2.4 Crankshaft relearn
Saturday, July 12, 2008 3:01 PM
I guess Ill just have to see after its fired up lol..











~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ
Re: 2.4 Crankshaft relearn
Saturday, July 12, 2008 3:33 PM
any idea how much a relearn is at a stealership?



Re: 2.4 Crankshaft relearn
Saturday, July 12, 2008 8:21 PM
I'm not even sure Brad, I got mine done at monroe muffler lol. My friends dads shop.









~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ
Re: 2.4 Crankshaft relearn
Saturday, July 12, 2008 10:31 PM
oh, i wasnt aware other places besides GM had access to the 'tec 2' i thought it was a gm only deal...



Re: 2.4 Crankshaft relearn
Sunday, July 13, 2008 7:07 AM
anyone can buy a tec 2 as far as i know......it just depends if someone/some shop wants to fork up enough $$ for it...





Re: 2.4 Crankshaft relearn
Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:13 AM
^^Exactly, thats why my friends dad said he'll kick our asses if anything happens to it, even his store tech lolol..









~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ

Re: 2.4 Crankshaft relearn
Friday, April 06, 2012 11:00 AM
So which method is better. Hptuners OK, do what Brian posted, or.have the dealer do it?



Re: 2.4 Crankshaft relearn
Friday, April 06, 2012 11:20 AM
would definitely be the answer to ur problem, mike.



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Re: 2.4 Crankshaft relearn
Friday, April 06, 2012 11:31 AM
My issue wasn't the crank, it was the timing being off a tooth or so.










~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ
Re: 2.4 Crankshaft relearn
Friday, April 06, 2012 11:57 AM
umm i'm having a hard time buying into this relearn....maybe beacause it's a load of bull the dealerships and shops pull so you spend more money on nothing, I don't goto shop for anything I don't need to, as I have been the nieve victom of them....and we pull that crap on people all the time where I work...you sell them an unneeded service. I can see the coversation now....well we put a new crankshaft postion sensor in your car, so we then had to run our tool on it to allow your vehicle to recognize the new parts, here is your bill.

our cars are obd2 there is a certain learning to it but nothing u do manually, the car makes real-time adjustments itself, you should be all "learned" up after 10 full run cycles, if you are paying to have this done you are a fool. I have never ever had a problem changing anything, when you first start and run it it may perform oddly, or poorly but it smooths out and runs just fine after severl run cycles...by that i mean good drives, enough to where the cpu can perform all of its tests, i thing the cavi has some 6 tests it hasd to run to calibrate, and seriopusly just take off battery positive hold brake pedal 30-sec to drain all power from cpu capacitors then hook it up put the key to on and let the computre cycle through, then switch to off and then start it, your car should be fine and "learned" within a day or two of normal driving.......the GM manual is where i got the cpu draing procedure, i think chiltons/haynes manual has it in there too, and if you have a problem with your sensors positioning...you have a timing problem, because the position of the sensors cannot bee changed "on-the-fly" unless u have a new honda with the computer controlled timing gears i think it's i-vtec..
point is the obd2 computer does not need this crap, the absolute only thing it would need to re-learn with a scanner mite be the transmission-automatic obviously
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