This with an LD9 flange???
Im sure i could do it with the LD9 flange.... make sure fitment would be good. This thing is 8.25" tall flange face to top of the collector and the sides would go down 2.25" from the center of the runners. I dont think there would fitment problems seeing the HO manifold fits in there.
If it had velocity stacks in it I would of been sold. But for about 200 bucks less than that I could make my own with no velocity stacks in it. You can pick them up for about 30 bucks fer stack but I would imagine it would bump your price up another 200 bucks.
http://www.rossmachineracing.com/intakepartspage.html
I think I agree with some of the guys, for that price it would have been nice to see some stacks on there, and maybe a bit smaller chamber, and possibly a slant the the far side (aka gets smaller) and i think youd have a great product. I think options on how you want this set up would be good. But i think how i said would be a better bet, but thats my opinion.
03 Sunfire - Sold.
I could build it with stacks like like you even said it would add on almost $200 to the price of the manifold... still would be cheaper than other manifolds out there.
Tell ya guys what ill make em up with the velocity stacks for $700 for the manifold.... if i can get 5 buyers ill do them for $650/each + shipping rate.
Well I don't really care bout the stacks but like I said I just want a manfiold if u can make the plenum a bit smaller and with the throttle body facing the passenger side so I can use it with my saab setup and you've got one sold
This should be do-able for you! shoot me an email please! vulcan.turbo@hotmail.com
Vulcan Turbo, LLC wrote:The collector on this baby is 307cubic inches, and each runner has a 1-3/4 inside diameter! this thing can move some serious air.
Key word there. Please don't take anything I'm about to say as discouragement, because we seriously need more vendors/companies making parts.
I have defended you in the past when first starting here Vulcan, but I have to be honest with you, I don't see that manifold moving much air on a 9,000+ RPM B18, let alone the lowly low reving 2.2 ECO. Runner diameters are about right, but the runner lengths are way too short. If I were you, I would get this prototype together first and get it dynoed to see where the resonance peaks occur, before you start naming prices and options. Actual dyno numbers are meaningless (for our general purposes), but the resonance peaks are critical. People need to be well informed about what they are purchasing and how exactly it will affect their powerband.
I'll give you an idea of what I mean: people started hemming and hawing when Mastin dynoed his port matched Quad4 HO manifold on the LD9 and it showed it moved the first resonance peak too far out of the engine's power band to pose any benefit...and those runners were only slightly shorter than stock. 99% of people here don't understand resonance tuning and will just buy a manifold because it "looks" like it will help make power (Quad4 HO manifold on stock cam'd LD9 = case and point). Manifold design is just as critical as cam selection, and both should be engineered to match.
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Whalesac wrote:I don't see that manifold moving much air on a 9,000+ RPM B18, let alone the lowly low reving 2.2 ECO. Runner diameters are about right, but the runner lengths are way too short. If I were you, I would get this prototype together first and get it dynoed to see where the resonance peaks occur, before you start naming prices and options. Actual dyno numbers are meaningless (for our general purposes), but the resonance peaks are critical. People need to be well informed about what they are purchasing and how exactly it will affect their powerband.
I'll give you an idea of what I mean: people started hemming and hawing when Mastin dynoed his port matched Quad4 HO manifold on the LD9 and it showed it moved the first resonance peak too far out of the engine's power band to pose any benefit...and those runners were only slightly shorter than stock. 99% of people here don't understand resonance tuning and will just buy a manifold because it "looks" like it will help make power (Quad4 HO manifold on stock cam'd LD9 = case and point). Manifold design is just as critical as cam selection, and both should be engineered to match.
Well said, although I wanted to add a few points for those that havn't done alot of research into intake manifold design.
A 1.8L engine spinning at 9000rpm consumes 5% more air then a 2.2L engine spinning at 7000rpm assuming the same volumetric efficiencies.
Typically first wave harmonics are ignored because the runner lengths have to be too long. Normally you try to tune for second, third and forth. Although we say runner lengths, what we are really discussing is the distance between the plenum wall and the valve stem.
Using the Ecotec and the measurements listed the number work out as:
3.75" - length of intake track from the flange surface to the valve stem
0.5" - flange thickness
3" - runner length
4.5 - length from runner to plenum wall
11.75" total length
Rounding up to 12" the math works out as:
For 2nd harmonic, RPM range is from 9790 to 11880 with a pulse strength of 10 percent
For 3rd harmonic, RPM range is from 7356 to 8407 with a pulse strength of 7 percent
For 4th harmonic, RPM range is from 5735 to 6413 with a pulse strength of 4 percent
Using a 14" length the math works out as:
For 2nd harmonic, RPM range is from 8391 to 10183 with a pulse strength of 10 percent
For 3rd harmonic, RPM range is from 6305 to 7206 with a pulse strength of 7 percent
For 4th harmonic, RPM range is from 4916 to 5497 with a pulse strength of 4 percent
Using a 16" length the math works out as:
For 2nd harmonic, RPM range is from 7342 to 8910 with a pulse strength of 10 percent
For 3rd harmonic, RPM range is from 5517 to 6305 with a pulse strength of 7 percent
For 4th harmonic, RPM range is from 4301 to 4810 with a pulse strength of 4 percent
Velocity stacks are a whole other subject but I do believe they are a defining feature in a well performing intake manifold. The number one most important thing that they do is the extend the runner into the plenum. There is a low pressure area against the walls, meaning the air moves slower. By extending the runner into the plenum and away from the wall, the engine is now drawing air from a faster moving source.
All of this is in regards to a naturally aspirated engine .... for a turbo application you want short and fat runners because the the goal is to allow the turbo to cram as much air into the engine as easily as it can.
this is very true... this manifold currently being built will end up on a boosted engine and hopefully there will be before and after dyno numbers!
I just want to clarify. I am by no means insulting the design of this manifold, simply explaining some of the math that goes into manifold design and helping illustrate the challenges in designing a manifold. For the price it is a good value. It may not be the end all and be all of intake manifolds, but it also doesn't cost a small fortune. It is a step up over stock and mathematically it will result in a increase in volumetric efficiency. Sometimes a manifold like this works out better because you can dial down the cam timing and not only do you gain from manifold but now you've timed the cams for a lower powerband resulting in much more power under the curve.
a short running intake manifold would benefit a boosted engine the most since it has a shorter distance for airflow in the manifold and a more direct forcing of the air. It would benefit a N/A setup as well, but not as much as it would a boosted.
i say build it, dyno it, modify the design to perform better, re-dyno, then sell.
Im sure someone would buy your prototypes as well.
Nice looking mani, but some numbers and more R&D would really help this thing sell.
BTW, do these come with toy BMW???
haha sure ill throw in a toy bmw if you want.
Just an idea for you vulcan.
I don't know how heavy your manifold is, but what I had planned to do when building my manifold, is to have the same basic setup you have right now, then basically chop the runners in half, and connect the two sides with silicone hose. Dyno run at the original length, mark it, then seperate each runner by about an inch with a 1" long piece of pipiing of the same size, dyno it, and repeat. From there, you should have a good idea of what length you want the runners to be. That way, you could even sell multiple manifold designs for different RPM bands. Although, I'm sure you have plenty of time and money to just make multiple manifolds anyways, but my cheap, lazy ass really doesn't feel like doing that, lol. Good luck with this though.
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Pictures shown with the LS1 intake throttle body... that thing is huuuuge! 3" inlet diameter.
Also, the OEM throttle body intakes will use a 260 cu in collector instead of the 307.
Very nice Vulcan.
~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
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2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ
May I suggest welding a small extension on the tb like the Airfirced version. I had the tb without the lip added and it seemed a little short to add piping to. The lip added another inch or so and had a bead on the end to help keep the coupling tight on there.
