Emanage Wiring? - Tuning Forum

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Emanage Wiring?
Tuesday, May 03, 2005 3:08 PM
Did u guys wire ALL of your emanage wires at the computer, or did u wire some of them at your injectors in the engine bay, I cant find the wires from the injectors going into the computer, there are no such colors. so i was wondering if you extended the wires into your engine bay and tapped into them there?... and has anyone done that map resistor trick, is it between the orange and the green er the brown and the green?.. haha i have no idea. ne wayz, anything will help...thanx guys

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Re: Emanage Wiring?
Tuesday, May 03, 2005 6:28 PM
extend the wires to the injectors, its the easiest way.



Re: Emanage Wiring?
Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:52 PM
Um........if the injectors didn't have wires going to the ECU, how would they be controlled?!?! They're definitely there.

What you need is a pinout with colors for your ECU connectors.


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Re: Emanage Wiring?
Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:02 PM
yeah, if i was saying if you don't a pinout, which you will need anyway, you could just extend the wires.



Re: Emanage Wiring?
Thursday, May 05, 2005 4:19 PM
heyy, ya alright ill look for the wireing diagram of the ecu, im jus stumped on which wire i should put the 330ohm resistor on for the map sensor, i believe there is a green an orange and a brown er black not sure of the last color, but im almost sure it goes betwen the green and the orange, anyways anything to help would be awesome.. and how do u kno which pin is pin 10 im never really sure how 2 count them haha
thanx alot guys, ill get u pictures soon, thanx

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Re: Emanage Wiring?
Thursday, May 05, 2005 4:37 PM
i wouldn't do the resistor trick. it will mess with a lot of stuff. get a missing link valve that will vent off the boost, allowing you to keep your stock vac readings. the resistor will make you run weird at different places.



Re: Emanage Wiring?
Thursday, May 05, 2005 9:09 PM
Heres a webpage I have saved...

It might help you find some wire colors...

http://www.cavyjason.com/emanage.htm


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Re: Emanage Wiring?
Thursday, May 05, 2005 10:56 PM
coldfusion wrote:

i wouldn't do the resistor trick. it will mess with a lot of stuff. get a missing link valve that will vent off the boost, allowing you to keep your stock vac readings. the resistor will make you run weird at different places.


No offense, but you have no idea what you're talking about. The e-manage WILL NOT WORK WITHOUT the resistor trick!!! The voltage coming from a stock map sensor on an LD9 WILL NOT work properly with the e-manage. I'm assuming the 330ohm resistor didn't work out for you. You came to me for advice a couple days ago. I told you to "experiment" with different resistors....just like the huge thread on here says. 330ohms is NOT always the correct value. Exhaust all of your resources before you shoot down my solution.

Not to mention, T-ing off the map sensor to make it read like stock voltage levels will make your engine run lean. Granted yes, the e-manage is there to allow you to adjust the output to the ecu for this pressure drop......but you will run lean if you don't adjust. The other major problem with T-ing off the sensor is the fact that you lose even MORE bandwidth of the sensor. Adding the resistor to the map sensor will boost the base voltage up a couple tenths of a volt to allow the e-manage to work properly. Adding the T to the system will lose MORE voltage across the entire sensor. Not something I or anyone else would recommend.

Get the e-manage working with your car by experiementing with different resistors. Resistors only come in certain standard sizes. I suggest trying the 330ohm first. If that doesn't work, try adding less voltage. This can be accomplished by adding 10ohm resistors in series with the 330ohm resistor. This will increase the resistance by 10ohms everytime you add a resistor (1 10 ohm in series with the 330ohm totals 340ohms) which will effectively lower the voltage boost to the map sensor. If you absolutely need to, add voltage to the sensor by reducing the resistance. The next step down from a 330ohm resistor is 270ohms. Again, add 10ohm resistors in series to add resistance if 270 is too much.

This trick has worked effectively with countless cars equipped with the LD9, 2200, and ecotec engines. I get on average 2-3 people per week asking me about the resistor trick. Each person I have directed toward the following thread:

http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=40&i=70510&t=62042

Read the entire thing. I know you replied in it way back when but not sure if you read the whole thing.

Throw the resistor between green and orange. Black is the world's universal color for ground.

As far as pin 10 goes, check this out:

http://www.ny-jbodies.org/library/engine/2.4/pcm/ld9pcm.htm

That shows you the pinout for the two connectors on the 2000+ LD9 ECU. Remember, its pin 10 on the BLACK connector, not the blue one. You should also be able to find the wires that correspond to your injectors on there as well.

Hope this helps.




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Re: Emanage Wiring?
Friday, May 06, 2005 10:11 AM
Mr. Pute, i know that the trick has worked for many people, this is all i am saying: with the resistor trick, when you decelerate at 0 throttle, the ecu sees that you aren't at full vaccuum and will dump fuel. the fuel injectors decelerating at 0 throttle with inject zero fuel, which is why my wideband will say AIR. also, you don't have to use a resistor trick at all. The trick prevents the ecu from seeing boost correct? so why not just look at your output values from the emanage to the ecu and keep them under 5 volts.



Re: Emanage Wiring?
Friday, May 06, 2005 10:12 AM
will inject**



Re: Emanage Wiring?
Friday, May 06, 2005 3:48 PM
coldfusion wrote:

Mr. Pute, i know that the trick has worked for many people, this is all i am saying: with the resistor trick, when you decelerate at 0 throttle, the ecu sees that you aren't at full vaccuum and will dump fuel. the fuel injectors decelerating at 0 throttle with inject zero fuel, which is why my wideband will say AIR. also, you don't have to use a resistor trick at all. The trick prevents the ecu from seeing boost correct? so why not just look at your output values from the emanage to the ecu and keep them under 5 volts.


Wrong on both accounts.

The resistor trick shifts the ENTIRE map upward! You are not cutting off the lower end of the map sensor. You are cutting off the upper end of the sensor which is fine. If you have a 1 bar map sensor which uses the entire range of voltages to produce a fuel map, the e-manage will compensate for that upper end by you manualy adding values to the upper half of the table.


Read what I said:

Mr. Pute wrote:

The voltage coming from a stock map sensor on an LD9 WILL NOT work properly with the e-manage.


The resistor trick prevents the E-MANAGE from seeing VACUUM. The e-manage freaks out if the map sensor goes near 0 volts (vacuum area). If you had read the entire thread that I started previously, you would of seen that.

Coldfusion, I highly suggest you read the entire thread over again before you destroy your car.


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Re: Emanage Wiring?
Friday, May 06, 2005 3:56 PM
Mr. Pute wrote:



The resistor trick shifts the ENTIRE map upward! You are not cutting off the lower end of the map sensor. You are cutting off the upper end of the sensor which is fine. If you have a 1 bar map sensor which uses the entire range of voltages to produce a fuel map, the e-manage will compensate for that upper end by you manualy adding values to the upper half of the table.




How can you shift the entire map upward and not cut of the bottom part of the map. i have tried the trick, it cuts off the bottom of the map, i have a wideband and i clearly saw that it does. I am running no resistor trick, and am running the emanag perfectly. I didn't know that the emanage doesn't like to see vaccuum, but why would this be true? every map sensor sees vaccuum so why would greddy have made a unit that freeks out when it sees vac?



Re: Emanage Wiring?
Saturday, May 07, 2005 12:53 AM
Hey mr pute, thanx for your patience, i have a question for ya tho...do u think the grand am 01 2.4L has a differnt computer than a cavalier er sunfire ???, cause on mine i have 3 connecters, and one has a pink end and one doesnt, and im not eve possitive which is which, on sum connecters there are 2 sets of the same color wires, and my injector numbers 3 and 4 arent into the computer in that color wire so im stumped. i have power, ground, throttle, and map, buttttt i duno which god damn PIN @!#$ if i saw a damn blue connecter than i would kno wat 2 do ect hahaha, and fuk how is there connecters with 75 pin spots mine are like 20 max each one, but yah i duno ill see if i can get u a pic, thanx for your help, any comments ?.....

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Re: Emanage Wiring?
Sunday, May 08, 2005 5:28 AM
I don't want to pst jack but this is a post about the emanage and I diddn't feel it required it own thread. Will my car run without the emanage hooked up or will it have to be in at all times once it is wired in.




Re: Emanage Wiring?
Sunday, May 08, 2005 9:15 AM
in at all times.



Re: Emanage Wiring?
Sunday, May 08, 2005 10:27 AM
What are the jumper settings I need to make if any?





Re: Emanage Wiring?
Sunday, May 08, 2005 11:43 AM
coldfusion wrote:

How can you shift the entire map upward and not cut of the bottom part of the map. i have tried the trick, it cuts off the bottom of the map, i have a wideband and i clearly saw that it does.


NO!!! It does NOT cut off the bottom part of the map!!! Absolutely not! It only cuts off the bottom part of the VOLTAGE in the MAP sensor. The map shifts upward because the car uses the MAP sensor as a barometric sensor once you turn the ignition on and before you crank the engine over. What don't you understand about this? Look it up in a friggin service manual. It says it in there as well!

coldfusion wrote:

I am running no resistor trick, and am running the emanag perfectly.


Here's a conversation you and I had a couple days ago:

[21:48] The Pute 2: sure. what's your name on the org?
[21:48] turbedeco: coldfusion
<Unrelated convo here>
[22:24] The Pute 2: are you getting any engine codes?
[22:24] turbedeco: i need to hook a laptop up to it
[22:24] turbedeco: yeah
[22:24] turbedeco: i havent done the resistor trick, would that do anything?
[22:24] The Pute 2: um......yes!!!
[22:24] turbedeco: i figured the low map sensor voltage would just dump more fuel
[22:25] The Pute 2: that's the difference between your e-manage working and not
[22:26] turbedeco: yeah i am throwing the low map sensor voltage code
[22:26] turbedeco: i just figured it would just dump fuel anyway
[22:27] The Pute 2: is your e-manage giving a code?
[22:27] turbedeco: um, maybe
[22:27] turbedeco: yeah
[22:27] turbedeco: but i didnt think it was anything

I call . You're still getting codes on your car and on your e-manage. There's NO WAY you're not getting neither of them unless you up the MAP voltage. If you're not, please share with the 30,000 people on this board how you managed to defy gravity.

coldfusion wrote:

I didn't know that the emanage doesn't like to see vaccuum, but why would this be true? every map sensor sees vaccuum so why would greddy have made a unit that freeks out when it sees vac?


Greddy didn't make the system for our cars!!! It's a universal system that was designed for japanese sport compact cars.

Derek Spencer wrote:

Hey mr pute, thanx for your patience, i have a question for ya tho...do u think the grand am 01 2.4L has a differnt computer than a cavalier er sunfire ???, cause on mine i have 3 connecters, and one has a pink end and one doesnt, and im not eve possitive which is which, on sum connecters there are 2 sets of the same color wires, and my injector numbers 3 and 4 arent into the computer in that color wire so im stumped.i have power, ground, throttle, and map, buttttt i duno which god damn PIN @!#$ if i saw a damn blue connecter than i would kno wat 2 do ect hahaha, and fuk how is there connecters with 75 pin spots mine are like 20 max each one, but yah i duno ill see if i can get u a pic, thanx for your help, any comments ?.....


Definitely get a picture up. I'd say go find a grand am forum where you can ask somebody for a pinout of the ECU. That would probably help you out best. I see if I can come up with something too.

coldfusion wrote:

in at all times.


WRONG again Coldfusion. If you jump the ignition in and out wires back together as well as the MAP sensor wires all on the e-manage harness, the car will work as if it's back to stock trim.


Mike Jefferson wrote:

What are the jumper settings I need to make if any?


All the answers to setting up your e-manage's jumpers can be found here:

http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=40&i=70510&t=62042

and here:

http://www.cavyjason.com/emanage.htm




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Re: Emanage Wiring?
Sunday, May 08, 2005 1:16 PM
Mr. Pute wrote:



Greddy didn't make the system for our cars!!! It's a universal system that was designed for japanese sport compact cars.



WRONG again Coldfusion. If you jump the ignition in and out wires back together as well as the MAP sensor wires all on the e-manage harness, the car will work as if it's back to stock trim.


first of all, japanese sport compact cars using a map sensor see vac, there aren't map sensors that are on stock cars that don't see vaccuum.

I was answering his question to the affect as if he still wanted all of the tuning done on his car, without the e-manage hooked up, you will not get any of the additional setting that were done to the car. thats what i understood his question as.

yes, i am still throwing codes without the resistor trick, but it runs perfectly, there is a difference between codes and running perfectly.



Re: Emanage Wiring?
Sunday, May 08, 2005 2:42 PM
coldfusion wrote:

first of all, japanese sport compact cars using a map sensor see vac, there aren't map sensors that are on stock cars that don't see vaccuum.


Every single post you've made totally looks past my points and mixes information together.

Take vacuum out of your fricken skull for a second. A lot of japanese cars (Honduhs, DSMs, etc.) run with a MAF (Mass Air-Flow) sensor or a Karman Vortex sensor. Totally different types of sensors that the E-Manage supports. Lots of different options. There's literally THOUSANDS of different cars and engine management systems out there running around in the world. You don't think it's possible that Greddy looked past how a SINGLE system works? Yeah right. Not every company is perfect.

Put it this way, YES! All MAP sensors are alike. They all run off of a 5 volt power supply. HOWEVER, NOT ALL ELECTRICAL SYSTEMS ARE THE SAME!! The resistance across one MAP sensor can be totally different from another MAP sensor. The 5 volt power supply of one engine management system can be totally different in current supply and overall system resistance than another system. That's why the E-Manage doesn't work with everything.

coldfusion wrote:

I was answering his question to the affect as if he still wanted all of the tuning done on his car, without the e-manage hooked up, you will not get any of the additional setting that were done to the car. thats what i understood his question as.


Again, you totally looked PAST THE READING!!! Here's all that jeff said:

"Will my car run without the emanage hooked up or will it have to be in at all times once it is wired in."

That's it! The answer to the question is yes. He didn't say anything about the car being tuned after removing the e-manage. You'd have to be pretty thick-headed to assume that. That's like throwing a turbo on a car that puts down an extra 100hp and expect the car to run exactly the same horsepower after you remove it!

coldfusion wrote:

yes, i am still throwing codes without the resistor trick, but it runs perfectly, there is a difference between codes and running perfectly.


WOW dude. I mean....WOW! Not only do you look past the text in this thread, you also ignore the fact that your car thinks something is wrong.

This is taken from the GM Service Manual:

ACTION TAKEN WHEN THE DTC (P0107 - Map Low Voltage) SETS

The Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) will illuminate after two consecutive ignition cycles in which the diagnostic runs with the fault active.
The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) will record operating conditions at the time the diagnostic fails. This information will be stored in the Freeze Frame and Failure Records buffers.
A history DTC is stored.
Coolant fan turns ON.
The PCM will substitute a fixed MAP value and use Throttle Position (TP) to control the fuel delivery (scan tool will not show defaulted value.)
The vehicle will operate in Open Loop when the vehicle is under 8 km/h (5 mph ). The vehicle will operate in Closed Loop when the vehicle is over 8 km/h (5 mph ).

Oh and uh....here's another line to justify my previous statements:

The MAP sensor is also used, under certain conditions, to measure barometric pressure, allowing the PCM to make adjustments for different altitudes.

Do us all a favor coldfusion and STOP! I know what I'm talking about. I know how this system works, and how it DOESN'T work. Do your car a favor and get the resistor trick working with it. I'd hate to see you destroy it.

Also, if you want to challenge what I'm saying, do so with information. Prove your statements. I've worked too hard on trying to get this system working with our cars for you to discredit my findings and experiments. I'm not getting codes on the E-Manage nor the OBDII diagnostics of the car with the resistor trick. It works! I know it works. Many people on this site know it works! The fact that it works proves how true my statements are regarding the functionality of the sensors, how they work, and why they don't work with the E-Manage.

If you think I'm wrong, @!#$ PROVE IT.




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Re: Emanage Wiring?
Sunday, May 08, 2005 3:49 PM
Mr. Pute > Coldfusion



Re: Emanage Wiring?
Sunday, May 08, 2005 3:52 PM
Mr. Pute is correct about everything you just read. I didn't know that the e-manage does not like the input voltage from out map sensors, therefore you must use the resistor trick.




Re: Emanage Wiring?
Sunday, May 08, 2005 3:54 PM
Another convo we just had:

[18:14] turbedeco: okay dude, i know you own me in knowledge
[18:16] turbedeco: there is just one thing i can't see how it could possibly work, i tried the resistor trick, when i was at like 2500 rpms, and 0 throttle, the injectors were dumping fuel, they aren't supposed to
[18:20] The Pute 2: It sounds like you have a problem with your e-manage
[18:20] The Pute 2: where did you get it from?
[18:21] turbedeco: a guy from an srt-4 forum, it was brand new in its box
[18:22] turbedeco: okay, so how does the e-manage exactly not like what our map sensors are putting out?
[18:22] The Pute 2: I've already explained that
[18:22] turbedeco: how can it just not like a low voltage
[18:22] The Pute 2: there is an electrical drop across the system when the e-manage is put in place
[18:22] turbedeco: Oh
[18:23] The Pute 2: sometihng about the e-manage being put in there, the voltage across the system drops and things freak out
[18:24] The Pute 2: that's why you need to add more voltage to the map sensor. it bring the voltage in the system back up
[18:24] turbedeco: Oh, okay
[18:25] turbedeco: cause my emange is throwing, "the map sensor is hooked up incorrectly or disconnected" the error code 1
[18:25] The Pute 2: I got that code when I hooked it up backwards
[18:27] turbedeco: well i have watched the real time data
[18:27] turbedeco: it is hooked up correctly
[18:28] The Pute 2: maybe crappy connection? did you solder your connections or crimp them?
[18:28] turbedeco: twisted together then crimped
[18:29] The Pute 2: yikes
[18:29] The Pute 2: that's a major cause for things going wrong
[18:29] The Pute 2: you need to solder all of your connections
[18:29] turbedeco: dang
[18:32] turbedeco: does the e-manage go into any sort of limp mode when a code is produced, or does it just flash the light and alert the user
[18:35] The Pute 2: That, I'm not entirely sure of. The fact that there is a code though means that something is wrong and the e-manage isn't sensing things correctly. This is why you have to pay attention to those codes
[18:35] The Pute 2: I don't want to be the one that finds out it DOES go into a limp mode
[18:35] turbedeco: yeah
[18:36] turbedeco: its just that i couldnt figure out why it was throwing that code, but now realizing that it is from the low voltage, i tuned my car and everything with that code going off and it appears that it doesnt go into limp mode
[18:37] The Pute 2: I still wouldn't trust it
[18:37] turbedeco: yeah i mean i dont want that code going off, its just with the resistor trick, it effed with my fuel at the lower end of the map
[18:38] turbedeco: mainly in deceleration from a higher rpm at 0 throttle
[18:40] The Pute 2: define "effed with my fuel"
[18:40] The Pute 2: what did it do?
[18:42] turbedeco: okay, i installed my wideband before i stuck my emanage on
[18:43] turbedeco: when i decelerated at a higher rpm at 0 tp, my wideband went to AIR, assuming the injectors would just cut off
[18:43] The Pute 2: right
[18:43] turbedeco: then with the emanage installed
[18:43] turbedeco: it acted just like stock
[18:43] turbedeco: then i put on the resisotr
[18:44] turbedeco: and when i did that decelerate, it wouldnt go to AIR, but rather a a/f ratio in the 15s
[18:45] The Pute 2: ok, did you try adjusting your a/f map?
[18:45] The Pute 2: take out fuel at 0% throttle?
[18:46] turbedeco: ooo, i see how it would work now
[18:47] turbedeco: the e-manage only cares about the input value on the map sensor voltage doesn't it?
[18:47] The Pute 2: correct
[18:48] turbedeco: well damn, now i understand everything
[18:48] The Pute 2: then you use the e-manage to compensate. after all, that's what you bought it for
[18:48] turbedeco: yep
[18:49] turbedeco: i could actually auto correct for the resistor with the auto correct fuel injector size feature
[18:49] The Pute 2: Yeah, that would work
[18:50] turbedeco: dang well i will try that out, i didn't understand that the emangae didn't like the voltage from our map sensors
[18:51] The Pute 2: well, now you know
[18:51] turbedeco: well thanks
[18:51] The Pute 2: no prob. I would greatly appreciate it if you followed up in that thread and set the tension in there straight
[18:51] turbedeco: just did
[18:52] The Pute 2: Sorry if I came off harse but I don't want people coming to me with @!#$ up cars saying that I did something wrong
[18:52] The Pute 2: because they took your advice
[18:52] The Pute 2: you follow?
[18:52] turbedeco: yeah, i just didn't understand
[18:52] turbedeco: yeah
[18:52] The Pute 2: thanks. no hard feelings
[18:52] turbedeco: cool, same to you
[18:52] The Pute 2: keep me informed with what happens
[18:53] turbedeco: sounds good
[18:53] The Pute 2: do you mind if I post this convo?
[18:53] The Pute 2: it kinda sets things straight and explains stuff
[18:54] turbedeco: thats cool
[18:54] The Pute 2: alright


That should explain things even further I would think.





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Re: Emanage Wiring?
Sunday, May 08, 2005 7:51 PM
Well, since I have first hand experience with this I am going to input something here.

YOU WILL NEED THE RESISTOR!

Plain and simple. I tried it with and without the resistor and even reversed the direction of the resistor as well.

Without the resistor, the emanage flashes at me and car runs horribly.

With the resistor hooked up but in the wrong direction car reactst eh same way.

Changed the direction of the resistor, works perfect and thats how I have been running it.

With the resistor not in, the car will barely run and runs like total ass.

So, if you are running the emanage, run the resistor or you WILL throw codes and/or have your car run like ass.

Later,
Jeff


--------------------------------
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