I find it funny how people seem to find a specific thing and try to pick at it so that they can justify their own or majorities ways.

His point was not his reactions, or others reactions to the words but the fact that people in our country are still teaching their family and friends to dislike or even hate a group of people for what ever reason.

I became angry when I heard a group of my friends say that we should teach our children with words not actions. And that is B/S because children will repeat anything they know from their parents, siblings, or friends. Those are the people that influence their thinking and decisions. It's ridiculous that in a time like today where we are so advanced and so intercultural that we can try to block out a "group" of people because of one specific reason like a couple people that look like them caused 9/11.

The only time I think you should be able to discriminate against one person is if you truly hate everybody other than yourself because we are all from the same design and all linked in one way or another. Whether it is Evolution or Creation that you believe in both bring us to one core and that means who ever it is that you discriminate against you have a tie to them in one way or another even if it is billions of years ago.

So just leave these negative feelings behind and treat everyone else like they are your family or friends, unless if they personally have given you a reason why not to.





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The ECOnator (Encriptor) wrote:So just leave these negative feelings behind and treat everyone else like they are your family or friends, unless if they personally have given you a reason why not to.

I agree 100%









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Like I said, I'm not the one with the problem... but then again, the only divisions I think there should be for colours are in a Crayola box.


Prejudice is something that we can't help but do, but you don't have to let it make your decisions for you.

I think that most people (read white people) should experience it for themselves... but most are too much of a coward to do that.


Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

First I want to say that I'm glad we can discuss this like Adults and happy with the discussion so far.

Tabassco, it's kind of weird when you say "i know of slavery, reconstruction and carpet bagging, segregation and the civil rights movement" but look into those depths. During slavery africans were taken onto slave ships where they were starved, beaten and killed. When they came to America, they were deprived of education, treated like animals (or even worse), raped and made to do hard labor for no money and for long enduring periods. After they were finally free'd it didn't get much better. They were sent to "Ghettos" which most had no education and little ways to make any money. They were treated as 2nd hand citizens and in some cases were treated like slaves all over again. On top of that, police were terrible torwards them (and even to today). Police officers would pull them over, beat them and leave them for dead in worse situations. There were hate groups torwards to hating black people for example, the KKK. They would rape women, hang men, women and children, burn crosses on lawns, burn houses down, vandalize properties and homes and lots of times, justice was never done. While this is happening, we were segragated...couldn't use the same laboratories, couldn't go to certain restaurants, couldn't use the same water fountain and had to sit on the back of the bus (but this was mainly in the South but that's part of our history but it doesn't mean racism didn't happen in the north but was more accepted in the South).

That's just a general idea of what our history consists of till this day. Believe it or not, things like this still happen. I bet you this, throughout that long history, that word "nigger" was used in such hatred you wouldn't believe.

In general ways we are an appressed people just as Jews were in the Holocaust and like how Palestinians are in Israel.

As far as the study on racism with those kids, I'm not suprised at all. That's a great example. For lots of kids of minority (not just black), when your told constantly by people that your worthless or you won't amount to anything, yes that will lower your self esteem and show superiority to those people say it to you.

To Datwhitecav, I know exactly what your talking about. My car is pretty hooked up and when I drive to the local 711 or dunkin donuts (which are big hangouts for young people that are Polish) I can stared at very hard. It could be cause they like my car or it could be that they are suprised a young black male has a car that nice. Who knows...

All in all it goes down to children. My nephew is less than a year old and from this time on he will grow up and I hope he is tought acceptance instead of segragation. By the way, my nephew is mixed also, he is Black and Puerto Rican and will probably grow up in St. Thomas, VI with his family there and will see different cultures.



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^^^what i was asking with what you quoted, was more about your "history". you mentioned it and i was curious to know what exactly that entailed. the things you mentioned above i am aware of, though i havent experienced it first hand. but what you are mentioning is how blacks have been mistreated, not their culture or their history, although that is a part of their history. and back to my original question of the term nigger....like you said, im sure it meant worse back then than it does now, which is why i was wondering why it still invoked such a hostile reaction. either way its probably something that i will never understand.

GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:Nigger is just a word. Nigger, Honkey, peckerwood, zip, zipperhead, slope, chink, etc... they're all JUST WORDS.

You can say that now but that itself are only words. I don't think you or anyone else would understand the impact of those statements unless you ARE of a different race. It's almost impossible to describe so I won't bother trying. You can tell yourself it doesn't mean anything and that they don't know you, and your friends and family might even say the same thing but in the end, the words hurt.

So in short, if you are white, you won't understand. This is partially why when someone makes racist jokes and someone gets offended, the person will always say, "Relax, it's only a joke." They don't understand that everyone knows it's a joke but the words words hurt regradless.


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ToBoGgAn wrote:we are gonna take it in the ass and like it, cause thats what america does.

Slo2pt2 (Projekt Unknown?) wrote:One my SON is ADHD N.O.S and Autistic Spectrum Disorder. I will nto medicate him he will battle throught this himself and learn to control it.

I myself am a black male, and have lived my entire life in Alabama. I've seen racism first hand. I grew up in a household where my father is a racist. he won't admit it but he is. Anyway, the word nigger down here is totally different then the word Nigga. Nigger down here is about the same as a slap in the face. It's about the highest form of disrepect a black person can recieve. That's the reason I get angry if someone calls me that, and I understand everyone's statement as it's just a word, but what if someone slapped you, would it be just a slap. I have no problem with someone calling me a nigga as a sign of friendship or a simple what's up, because Black people do that also, and how can we let another black person do something but not another race. So that's fine with me. But the whole discrimanating(sp?) thing I see that everyday, I just don't worry about, I'll get to where I wanna be, with or without fair treatment



Experience is something you get after you need it.

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Here's a question...

Why is it that if... let's say... you're walking down a street in a city... you're a black male... a white male walks toward you... say's "What's up nigga?" in a friendly term... the white guy gets shot...

I suppose meaning... why is it that THAT word comming from a different race is always (or most of the time) considered as an insult even if it was just meant as a "what's up?" ... but a black person can say that to another black person and it's ok???

Racism goes on with all races... which I"m sure no one is denying...

For example...

A few months ago... there was a 17 year old black kid, who was speeding. The cop turned on his lights to pull him over... the kid took off on a chase through York City. The kid had thrown out I THINK either a bag of weed or a gun or something like that from the car. The kid turned onto another road... jumped out of the car right in front of the cop car and was ran over and killed. THey're calling it "racial profiling" (or at least the NAACP is) and trying to make it look like the cops were being racist. The kid was speeding!! Are the cops not allowed to pull over kids who are speeding because they're black or hispanic or arab or whatever???

I am by NO means racist at all... but that kind of stuff just makes me mad. If a white kid was doing the same thing in a predominantly black neighborhood and tried calling it racial profiling... it would be laughed at... even if it was!! People should just let it go already. Yeah what happened in the past was wrong... very very wrong... but it's in the past!!! EVERYONE is being discriminated upon in some manner in some areas of the country. People just need to learn to accept each other and their differences and realize that different skin color, shape, size, sex etc doesn't automatically mean you're a bad person.... and judge the individual not the race, etc.

Fallen Angel, to answer your questions:

The whole thing as "nigga" being a friendly statement for the most part (I'd hate to admit this) is a black thing. Many people feel that changing the word from "nigger" (a negative term) to "nigga" (a slang term) is making it their own and when I say their I mean black culture. Now, I'm not saying anyone else from another culture can't say it. My Puerto Rican friends say it to me sometimes in a normal conversation. The thing is, when you don't know someone and your an outside race (or mainly a non-minority) and you say it to someone who doesn't know you...yeah they will take it as an offensive. They will see it as "you don't know me like that to call me that" in any way, positive or negative.

It's a touchy word, yes. I closest of friends (even Encriptor aka Bryan) could say it around me but yeah it would make me feel weird, don't ask me why or even yesterday when we were at my house listening to rap and the rapper said it, it felt weird. That's just me.

Now about racial profiling, yes it does exist. Sometimes white cops want to bust around a couple black kids and see if they have drugs or a black cops want to bust around some white kids. It happens. I agree with you 100%, I think people take it WAY too far. NAACP is a good organization but sometimes them and Rev. Al Sharpton look to get into the media and try to put down the white race every chance they get if the smallest thing happens. Especially Al Sharpton, he's a media hog...everyone knows that. Anything that will get his face in the news, he will jump on. But like said, they take it way too far allot of times.

Now you don't hear about black cops busting around white kids because it happens less. If you go to most police forces, there are less black cops than white cops so which more than likely means less racial profiling towards white kids cause of their skin color. Now I'm not saying it doesn't happen but just saying more than likely it happens less. Now you don't hear about it either because the media LOVES to get juicy things going so cases of a white cop and a black person and racial profiling will be blasted on their tv programs and people will keep watching. Remember, bad news is always good news (to them).



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Tobassco, I apologize. I thought you meant how history of mistreatment.

And I have something to say about "im sure it meant worse back then than it does now, which is why i was wondering why it still invoked such a hostile reaction". That word will never lose it's negative feelings from years ago even if we aren't slaves anymore. That word carries so much history and so much hatred, it's not even funny. That's why if you were in my shoes and someone called you that in a derogative manner, you would feel very offended.

Have you ever talked to anyone or read up on in details about the Holocaust? I think that's the greatest example of hatred to the highest factor which happend then. I don't mean to get off topic but if you were to see someone who survived it and said a derogatory word to them (possibly was in German), you will see how they react torwards it.

The truth is, words aren't just words. Words carry history, carry feelings and can interpret many things and ideas. A word isn't just a bunch of letters put together...they carry meanings.



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Glace wrote: You can say that now but that itself are only words. I don't think you or anyone else would understand the impact of those statements unless you ARE of a different race. It's almost impossible to describe so I won't bother trying. You can tell yourself it doesn't mean anything and that they don't know you, and your friends and family might even say the same thing but in the end, the words hurt.

So in short, if you are white, you won't understand. This is partially why when someone makes racist jokes and someone gets offended, the person will always say, "Relax, it's only a joke." They don't understand that everyone knows it's a joke but the words words hurt regradless.

First off, I don't make racist jokes... they pander to the lowest common dolts, and frankly, it's demeaning to both me and the audience (I used to write comedy, racist jokes aren't that funny).

Second, I included white slurs in there too, and yes, I do know the genesis of them, and I appreciate the ignorance when someone uses them. I don't let it affect me, because I deal with a person, and words only hurt as long as I let them. (NJ Honda Killa: that last sentence is appropriate, the history and past hate is only going to hurt if you let it, you can't choose the meaning of the word, but you CAN choose your attitude!)

Third, if I get THAT angry that I lose it, I still don't break into the racist slurs. Why? Because if I get angry at you, I'm getting pissed at what you DID, not who you ARE. Besides, I figure an idiot is an idiot, doesn't matter what the window dressing is, you can't help your skin colour (unless you do the skin bleaching thing, but that's more than a little weird on its own) but you can help your own actions and thoughts. What you do is wholely different than who you are.

I'm white, and I understand racism because I've been in situations where I'm the minority and there are jerks all around acting like jerks... Hey, you want to feel awkward, try ordering a ham and cheese sandwich in a Hacedish Deli in Montreal where the counter person only speaks yiddish and french...

Simple fact is there are ignorant sons-of-bitches of every colour, of every creed, of every religion, and sexual orientation. The key thing I remember everytime is that I'm not the one with a problem.

"It's just us chickens in here," is a line I've said often, and frankly, its more than just a witty line... it's a bit of a mantra. I won't let my prejudice govern my thoughts about what kind of person someone is, because I don't want someone else acting like that when they don't even know me. Once they find out I'm a big, fat, kilted jerk... fair enough... but, I'm not a racist jerk...




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:I'm white, and I understand racism because I've been in situations where I'm the minority and there are jerks all around acting like jerks... Hey, you want to feel awkward, try ordering a ham and cheese sandwich in a Hacedish Deli in Montreal where the counter person only speaks yiddish and french...

Sorry dude, you may think you do understand but I don't believe you truly know how a minority feels when you utter a racial slur at them. You've been in "a situation" where you felt "awkward", but that might be the extent of your first hand knowledge. Replace "a situation" with "entire life", and "awkward" with "threatened or completely looked down upon" and you may have an understanding.

The best similie I can think of right now is that you know how an African feels because you've been through a 24 hour famine.

GAM wrote: Rest of post

I didn't call you racist or that you tell racist jokes.


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ToBoGgAn wrote:we are gonna take it in the ass and like it, cause thats what america does.

Slo2pt2 (Projekt Unknown?) wrote:One my SON is ADHD N.O.S and Autistic Spectrum Disorder. I will nto medicate him he will battle throught this himself and learn to control it.

I never said you did, I just stated my perspective.

As well, I understand racism because it's unfair, and yeah, I haven't had a boat load of insults slurs etc, dumped on me on a regular basis, but then again, I can tell when someone is being a jerk just because they don't like something about me. Again, I don't let that become a problem to impede me because even though I pre-judge people, I don't operate on that assumption because I'm wrong about those suppositions at least as often as I'm right.

Racism is just a branch of prejudice... if you see a jacked up beater truck with a white guy at the wheel with long hair, you ASSUME he's a Redneck. Maybe he's a decent person, but you've already acquainted "trailer-trash" with this guy because of what he looks like. Was that fair? No.. of course not. you might have made the assumption, but it only becomes a problem if you let that assumption taint what you learn about buddy.

Class-warfare, Racism... same s#!% different name. Allowing that prejudice to govern your actions and thoughts is very closed minded, and frankly it's insulting to others and demeans yourself.

I don't care so much about insulting others as I do demeaning myself... I wear a Kilt semi-regularly... demeaning myself further isn't something I do.

Seriously, I think the fact that I grew up in Canada as opposed to the US, and the racism that's here is a lot quieter and more polite, I think that takes the sting out of it. I don't think that racism is normal, maybe I'm strange or a rebel.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

NJs Honda Killa wrote: That word will never lose it's negative feelings from years ago even if we aren't slaves anymore.

but you said that by chaning the "er" to "a" that its a different word with a different meaning. not all black people say "nigga"...lots still say "nigger". so where is the difference in that?

Quote:

That word carries so much history and so much hatred, it's not even funny. That's why if you were in my shoes and someone called you that in a derogative manner, you would feel very offended.

anything said in a derrogatory manner will be offensive. i just find it odd that one word is a ball buster while others are like water off a ducks back.

Quote:

Have you ever talked to anyone or read up on in details about the Holocaust? I think that's the greatest example of hatred to the highest factor which happend then. I don't mean to get off topic but if you were to see someone who survived it and said a derogatory word to them (possibly was in German), you will see how they react torwards it.

BIG difference there. first of all, no ex slave is being called nigger. none are around. and as bad as it sounds, slavery was a way of life. by the mid 1800s slaves were born into it more often than sold into it (not condoning, but stating a fact) but the holocaust...totally different story. in a few short years more than 6 million people were killed. they experienced that first hand...not passed down for 150 years.

Quote:

The truth is, words aren't just words. Words carry history, carry feelings and can interpret many things and ideas.

the problem is ^^ right there. the interpretation. and thats what i was getting at.....why its interpretted in such a way. but like i said...its something that i probably wont ever understand. its left up to each individual to decide how they want to take it.

anyway, i really didnt mean to steer this off course....sorry

You know. When a word COULD be interpreted as offensive, whether you mean it in a derragatory way or not, it should be avoided. It's that easy.

I don't call black people nigger, or nigga, or nig, or or or or or
I don't call NA natives wahoo, or wagon burner, or or or
I don't call Spanish (or Portugese, or Latin American) people Spit, or wetback or or or
I don't call oriental people chink, or gook or or or or

There are maybe about 100 or so slurs that can easily be avoided. Even if I know a person very well, and am just kidding around, I don't ever use any of those terms. Why would I? All it would accomplish is to prove that I think they are what their skin colour defines. I have a life long (nearly) friend who is Native. He knows he's Native, and I know I'm white, we don't need to point it out to each other. He doesn't say "hey pale-face, how's it hangin'?" and I don't reply with "great wahoo, how 'bout you?"

Don't get me wrong, there have been jokes that involve race, it wasn't all taboo and uncomfortable. He sometimes jokes that he can't tell time after dark or something like that. He makes the Indian jokes, and I make the whitey jokes.. It's better that way.

Wanna feel really uncomfortable due to racism (I had forgotten about this feeling)? Try being the only white guy, at about 15 years old, among 150 or so Native people of all ages at a party. There was racism there, that's for sure.. Good thing I had a few friends, I would likely have been killed, at least seriously hurt. The thing is, as a white guy, I understand why there is so much hatred towards me. So I guess it's still different than the experience of someone in the minority.

PAX

oops. I meant the type "spik" not "spit" in the above ^

i can totally understand that a black man would be deeply offended if he was called a nigger to intintialy put him down. However i dont understand in the Hip-Hop/rap culture why rappers have to use the word nigga so much and then they turn around and market this music to white kids all over.(majority of rap albums are purchased by whites) I just got home from the gym about and hour ago and three white kids kept walkin around callin each other nigga the whole damn time. I cant stand it when someone tries to mock a culture thats not theirs but then again why is this culture sold to white teenagers so often. I know the rapper might mean for it to be for blacks but it sure as hell aint turin out that way. I know im off topic but im just curious.


"Youre lucky that 100 shot of nos didnt blow the welds on your intake"
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Gear, they have been saying the word "nigga" in songs since the beginning, it's just that I'd say since the mid-90s till now (especially now) it's extremely popular. People mock what they see and hear. What is in is what people are going to listen to and when you listen to that music you will hear that word. If they said "hot dogs" instead of that word, you'll see people calling each other hot dogs.

I don't get on every white person who is into rap music or likes the hip hop culture because the hip hop culture is not just for black people and that's what people misunderstand. Hip hop was started in the inner cities and predominantly they are black neighborhoods. If you anyone knows truly anything about hip hop culture, they would know it's not singled out to one race.

The problem is when people see a white person who wears hip hop clothing and listening to rap, they call them black. A type of music doesn't make you any less of your race or anymore of another race. I myself listen to mostly Electronic music and hip hop music, I don't wear hip hop clothing and don't talk in slang...that doesn't make any less black because I don't look like or talk like what most black people do and it's sad to say, people need to realize that.

Also, I don't like to see white kids saying "nigga" to every other word because for the most part, that's not who they are. They are wannabes. They take an image and put it on themselves and act a certain way because that's whats in. Trust me, if the style was to wear cowboy boots and spurs, they would be the first ones to do so.



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i dont come in this part of the site much.. so bare with me. i'm not usually around for serious discussion. Racism is everywhere you look. the differences between races, religions, colors, and cultures isnt something we should fear or have a prejudice about. when i watch tv like the george lopez show or the kings of comedy, i enjoy the comic take on the differences in the cultures. it is true, we as white people are different from those that are black, latino, asian, middle eastern or whatever anyone might be. it is these differences that are great. i mean if we were the same, there would be dull food, dull language, dull humor and dull lives. i'm from the area not far from tabasco. i will be honest, there have been times i have been uncomfortable around some black people and i know its my programmed attitudes. a lot of my family and people i've been around are racist. i dont think i'm racist, but i do feel that some things i have done or felt in situations are influenced by racial ideas. I don't think blacks, asians, or anyone else are better or worse than whites. In a lot of cases if wonder how we as a race would even think that we are better than anyone else. we're the ones that caused so many of the problems these other cultures have survived. the concepts of slavery and genocide absolutely blow my mind. i was watching a thing on tv about the little black girls that were killed in the church burning and it just makes you ashamed that 'your people' would be so stupid.

as far as the word nigger, i'll be honest. i'm the first person to say words are just words and its the meaning behind them that is offensive, but there are certain things even I can't really justify. in joke, i can make fun of rap music or wannabe kids using the word, but only like that. the word envokes a feeling that no white person can fathom. there is no term to describe white people in such a derogatory way except maybe 'guilty' Adam isnt a slave nor has he ever been one, and i'm damn sure not a slave owner...but that doesnt change the fact that he doesnt want to be reminded that his family or his ancestors were slaves any more than i'd want to say my family owned slaves.



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Words are only racist if you take them as racist... if someone calls you a nigger, shrug it off... if you react, you infact partake in the continuation of the reusual of the word, hence it becomes racist, and knowning that you were offended by it spreads the hate that people the fill the world with... so tech i guess you are considered a spreader of racism... i have no clue what im saying

Tredici wrote:i have no clue what im saying

got that right


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For the nigger/nigga issue, why have a double standard... one is just fine thanks.

If a white guy calls a black guy nigger it's racist.

How is it not equally so for blacks?

I'm not trying to be combative, I honestly want an explanation.

I ask because a friend of mine that is black (well, half asian, half black, he says he's black, but I'm not going to split hairs too finely) and his mom (who is mostly black) were talking about some of the immigrants (mostly from Somalia, I'll get into it later to explain) that were hanging around the corners, or worse, were making note of the people that leave their garage doors open partially to cool off the house so they could break in later... He said something with his mom around that kind of made me pause for a minute: "Those niggers are making black people look bad." Mom nodded in agreement.

I know that some blacks with extremely dark skin get ridden about it sometimes, or those with very prominent negroid features, and, hey, white folks with no taste/class/shame get the redneck tag...

I guess it happens. I just chafe at the rampant ignorance.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

Tredici wrote:Words are only racist if you take them as racist... if someone calls you a nigger, shrug it off... if you react, you infact partake in the continuation of the reusual of the word, hence it becomes racist, and knowning that you were offended by it spreads the hate that people the fill the world with... so tech i guess you are considered a spreader of racism... i have no clue what im saying

Did you not read this thread?

GAM wrote:If a white guy calls a black guy nigger it's racist.

How is it not equally so for blacks?

I'm not trying to be combative, I honestly want an explanation.

Because if a black guy oes it to a black guy, it's similar to depreciation humor. It's also because since it applies to both people, it's a way of saying, "By calling you this, I know where you are coming from since it is where I came from too. We share similar backgrounds and possibly values. We are brothers". All that can summed up in one word.

Can a white person say that to a black person?


______________________________________________________________

ToBoGgAn wrote:we are gonna take it in the ass and like it, cause thats what america does.

Slo2pt2 (Projekt Unknown?) wrote:One my SON is ADHD N.O.S and Autistic Spectrum Disorder. I will nto medicate him he will battle throught this himself and learn to control it.

As I said, what's the double standard for? One standard is just fine.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

Is BET racist? I know I'd be called racist if I wanted to start White Entertainment Television.