So the "smart states" voted KERRY!?? - Page 3 - Politics and War Forum

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Re: So the
Thursday, August 18, 2005 1:01 PM on j-body.org
jackalope wrote:TRD oh whatever your not in this country so I'm not worried about you. Enjoy your communist life style. I wont be responding to anymore of your posts as your not worth my time. Have a nice day goodbye.


this is why people like you are referred to as ignorant.
Just because you dont know what communism actually is, and start rambling off your uneducated views of what it apparently is, shows your reluctance to possibly accept other outcomes in situations like this war. You would refuse to believe that it can be resolved any other way. How can i make this statement.? because you refuse to look up even what the idea of communism actually is, just because you are afriad to have to change your view, you are too hardset in your way and too stubborn to admit that you could have been wrong.

And yes you are rite, im not in your country. But worth your time Im not, i like to think im worth only the non ignorant peron's time.
Oh. did this break the name calling thing now? calling you ignorant? well truth hurts sometimes, perhapps you need to think outside of the box you live in.



http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/618295

Re: So the
Thursday, August 18, 2005 1:04 PM on j-body.org
TRD in some aspects I have to agree with Jack. Your comments are not worth my time anymore. Read some history books and get educated about war and military life. Than maybe you can have an intelligent conversation about the subject.


98 Z24

RIP Specks
Re: So the
Thursday, August 18, 2005 1:13 PM on j-body.org
i think you both are waay too educated by those 'join the army' commercials and those 'brotherhood' tv series about the war which depicts how americans did this and that and won everything..
I could be wrong. but its funny how many many many of those video clips are showing canadian soldiers making land and the video is telling you its americans.. americans for d-day .. they are put out to corrupt the minds of americans thinking they can do everything, and this war started by bush is a noble cause.
read real history books then we can have intelligent convos eh?



http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/618295
Re: So the
Thursday, August 18, 2005 1:22 PM on j-body.org
Dude if you want to talk cars fine I'm game but since you only want to slam my country and it govt then yeah I'm done talking to you. No ignorant isn't name calling to be ignorant means you do not know something. I however know all I need to about communism to make an informed decision. I have seen it first hand and if thats what you want ok, your a grown adult and if you chose to give up your rights then hey cool
whatever floats your boat.
I'll talk cars to you anytime you want or if I know the answer to the problem your stuck on I won't ignore you I'll help you I'll offer you help like anyone else but I just so disagree with your views on politics that all I'll do is rant so I won't even get into it with you this way no problems will come about.
Let me know if you ever need help with your car cause when it comes to this topic I'm done talking to you.





Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: So the
Thursday, August 18, 2005 1:24 PM on j-body.org
you have not seen communism first hand. No country has ever had communism in its real form.
Communism isnt something thats ever been achieved but it is something we can try to achieve.. the idea is what is great.. not the so called communism you are referring to.. that was messed up and isnt true communism.



http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/618295
Re: So the
Thursday, August 18, 2005 1:31 PM on j-body.org
trdcelica90 wrote:you have not seen communism first hand. No country has ever had communism in its real form.
Communism isnt something thats ever been achieved but it is something we can try to achieve.. the idea is what is great.. not the so called communism you are referring to.. that was messed up and isnt true communism.


Aren't you splitting hairs? The attempted communist implementation in history is now the communism we all know and hate. Whether it was what it was supposed to be or not, I think the USSR, Cuba, China etc have absconded with the definition. It's too late. Are you going to attempt to reeducated the whole world, rewrite history books so everyone can know they weren't really communist?




---


Re: So the
Thursday, August 18, 2005 1:35 PM on j-body.org
Wow AGuSTiN you beet me to it. I had a capitalist customer. B.T.W. Very well put
I doubt I could have put it any better.


Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: So the
Thursday, August 18, 2005 1:46 PM on j-body.org
what do i need to rewrite? The dictionaries are as far as you need to go to see there are usually 2 definitions.. 1) what communism is 2) what became of countries and their so called communism.

the best definition i can give you for it is:
Communism is a society without money, without a state, without property and without social classes. People come together to carry out a project or to respond to some need of the human community but without the possibility of their collective activity taking the form of an enterprise that involves wages and the exchange of its products. The circulation of goods is not accomplished by means of exchange: quite the contrary, the by-word for this society is "from each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs".

With communism the government of people gives way to the administration of things. Contrary to the illusion produced by the present society the state and its institutions are not the inevitable result of the growth and complexities of societies, but the opposite, the result of the frantic socialisation of the species without community. The necessity for distinct organs of administration, repression and assistance has its cause in the maintenance of class society. The state is the defender of the dominant class which is increasingly integrated into it. It is forced to alleviate destitution which is increased by a social life where man becomes a predator for man.

With communism the oppositional but complementary relationship between the political and economic spheres disappears, i.e. between the citizen supposedly governing society in freedom and equality, and the producer as a slave to material necessity, hierarchy and the despotism of the factory. Communist theory and struggle are a critique of economy and politics.



so tell me how that is anything like the ussr or cuba. its not they told people it would be like that, it didnt work.. the power to control well.. i tihnk jack summed it up before.. power corrupts etc. etc. ( what was that book.. animal farm or something? )
I dont think anyone i know around here is unaware of what communism really is.. perhapps your teachers or your government need to allow actual real material into your education system. thats why there is ignorance.. which is bliss to those educated thru it.

Not that im gonig to say that all americans are bad. but its funny how your government does whatever it wants to aswell and feeds you lies about it all.
ie.
-the softwood lumber dispute which the USA lost the court ruling but still change what they are doing
-the devils lake dispute, they cant wait 3 weeks for the test results to come in to show how harmful the integration of that water will be to our watertable and ecosystem.. they just throw the switch anyways.
-US govt doenst care much about anything other than themselves. and who is the govt? people. some people agree with them some disagree with them about what they are doing and have done in the past regarding issues that concern other parts of the world.
Still doenst seem to matter.

doenst that make you wonder what else they mite be doing to serve their needs? only allow certain views into the education system so you all grow up thinking the same way they do, corrupt your minds wit the media and whats on tv. etc etc.

I dont in anyway hate americans, ( my grandma is a yank ) but i do hate how the stereotype of what americans are. is actually true in so many ways in so many people.



http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/618295
Re: So the
Thursday, August 18, 2005 2:10 PM on j-body.org
Oh I also see your a consperiousy theroist as well. Now things are really starting to make sence.

Watch out or the men in black helicopters will come and get you.

I just don't know what to say anymore. I think you've proven any point I could make so much better then I could have. Thank you TRDcelica90.

Your out there man waaay out there. I just hope things go ok for you in your world, I'll
be over here in the real one if you need any help.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: So the
Thursday, August 18, 2005 2:18 PM on j-body.org
okay, first of all, i'm not a communist, I'm just sick and tired opf people blaming an inaniate concept for somethign that is anuimate and what humans caused.

Jack--your family died fighting communism? Not necessarily. Your family, along with members of my family, fought, and some died, fighting some severely demented @!#$ running a country and causing problems, whos coumtries happened to be communist. There's a difference. It may be splitting hairs, but it's true.

As for the implementation of pure communism, with the way humans are now, it would never work--the same as pure capitlism--they both degrade into dictatorships because of the selfish and parasitic nature of humans. Both systems have flaws because of that innate human nature.

Either way, the only reason "communism" became a bad word was because in the tail-end of WWII, things were heating up between us and the USSR, and with Stalin'a iron fist, it wasn't the best of all systems there was. As such, The powers-that-be in america took us in the standoffish stance against the USSR (hence the cold war), and used EVERYTHING they could do differentiate us from them--communism being one of the things (also the fact that it was mostly an atheist state--hence the addition of "under god" in the pledge of allegiance). As such, communism was a byproduct of the hated for our chief rival.

In other words, you put Hitler in charge of the U.S. and a good portion of the Jewish population still gets killed even though we are a democratic republic with a capitolist ecomomy. Put Stalin in the same postition, same result.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaği, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Re: So the
Thursday, August 18, 2005 5:54 PM on j-body.org
First off...

Communism is a catch-all word. The socio-political implementations of the general idea are usually not anything close to true Marxism.

Communist Manifesto = Marxism (the ideal society)

USSR Pre-WWII = Bolshevism (idealist communism) & Leninist Communism (Political powerbase consolodation by the party)
USSR WWII-1989 = Stalinist Communism (much more secretive and radical, dependant on a vast and oppressive military)
(if you want the simplified Russian communist narrative, read George Orwell - Animal Farm).

China WWII-1997 = Maoist Communism (see Leninist Communism)
China 1997-present = Maoist Socialism (there is in fact, a very large difference in idealogy, in practice, it's not dissimilar to Maoist Communism, but for some minor trade openings)

Cuba = National Revolutionary Communism (however, the revolution hasn't stopped in 50 years.. go figure)

There.

Now that we know the differences:
- Marxism created an idealistic society where the government owned all, and all worked for the government. The need for monetary wealth would cede, as would the government, and people would share equally due the mutual dependance on others for survival.
- Bolshevism was populace worker's uprising against an oppressive Czarist Russia that kept the people more or less destitute, and the upper ruling class in opulence. It was the genesis of a Communist state.
- Leninism was the beginning of political power consolodation by the Communist Bolsheviks. This was the beginning of purges of counter-revolutionaries and the erasure of people that were implicated.
- Stalinism saw the political powerbase of Russia solidified and expanded into the Balkans and eastern europe as well as Asian countries following the defeat of Germany. The government became very radical, and used the KGB as the stormtroopers of the party. Basically, they had become the political equivalent of the National Facists in Germany, the Nazis. This continued until about 1989 when travel restrictions were alleviated from East Germany to West Germany... with the unintended effect of knocking down the collective communist states, which to be fair were in utter political corruption and decay.
-Maoism is the populace movement of post-dynastic Chinese Peasantry that rose up to fight back the Japanese insurgency. After the adoption of Marxist principles, and then a shift towards Stalinist principles, China lost favour for the Russian variety of communism. Since then the powerbase of the communist party (or the People's communist liberation party) has been very solid, and very secretive, but not as radical as Russia's version. There are numerous political and criminal prisoners, but they are not subjected to intense physical tortures not the conditions of Gulags. The "reform" is usually taken in a much different route, but anyone found to be recalcitrant (for lack of a better word) is kept for re-education.
- Maoist Socialism is more or less unchanged from the communist variety, save for the incorporation of British-styled laws and commerce that were integrated after the re-unification of Hong Kong, and the fact that it is one of the major economic centres of the pacific. It is hoped that an overhaul of the entire chinese monetary system will produce a freer nation.
- Cuban National Revolutionary Communism Is a bit of a misnomer. It's more like Banana-republic Bolshevism. Basically, after the overthrow of Batista, Castro was to have created a people's Government, but he never really did. Much of the political power-structure remained the same after the Revolution, but instead of towing the American line, they basically held all the power themselves.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.



Re: So the
Friday, August 19, 2005 5:07 AM on j-body.org
Keeper I believe the Vietnam war WAS faught to keep communism out of the southern
part of that country. True we did not do a good job but that was do to the adminastration at the time. And yes I lost family there, so regardless who was running the communist show at the time lives were lost in the defence of it, So yes I will get a little bent out of shape when someone who no clue as to what a communist state turns into ( a dictatorship ) starts to tell me that the way of life that my family and I fought for
apparently along with yours is wrong.

Next someone is going to try to say Nazism is a great idea but it was just gone about
all wrong. But if the world will give it just one more chance then by gollie I know we can make it work. Go ask the Jews if they'd be up to giving it another try see what answer you get from them.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: So the
Friday, August 19, 2005 11:44 AM on j-body.org
Quote:

The President handed out 6 medels to Russian spies for there gathering of intell that showed Saddam had WMD's.
Could it have all been a show?
Information


"Speak the truth, and leave immediately after"
"The urge to save Humanity is almost ALWAYS a false front for the urge to rule"
"He who knoweth things as they are and not as they are said or seem to be, he truly is wise, and is taught of God more than of men."
Re: So the
Friday, August 19, 2005 12:38 PM on j-body.org
OH BOY ! another consperiousy theroist.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: So the
Friday, August 19, 2005 2:48 PM on j-body.org
jackalope wrote:OH BOY ! another consperiousy theroist.
Not really, just simply wanting you to answer a question after reading the link...which you'll probably not do.


"Speak the truth, and leave immediately after"
"The urge to save Humanity is almost ALWAYS a false front for the urge to rule"
"He who knoweth things as they are and not as they are said or seem to be, he truly is wise, and is taught of God more than of men."
Re: So the
Friday, August 19, 2005 4:31 PM on j-body.org
Jack: The idea that chinese Communism has to be kept at bay was one that was floated but the Nothern vietnamese had been turning pro-communist for a long, long, long time before the war really heated up. As early as 1955 there were grass-roots organisations that were openly pushing marxism.

Vietnam is really complicated, and while there were really no good or bad guys (as I said, the people wanted a change to communism) there were clear winners and losers.

The problem, I think, stemmed from the french occupation and long-time blind support for the french by the USA (this was before the current blitherings... but that's another post). By 1963 or a little earlier, JFK had committed troops to Vietnam for training of a vietnamese born army. Come 1968, the USA's same tactics were being used against them. Their own tactics, and the fact that US troops were hamstrung by LBJ's and Nixon's idiotic rules of engagement and their determination to run the war from the Whitehouse's oval office.

After the French withdrew in late 1968, it would have been prudent to evacuate everyone, and let what was happening, happen. This was one time that facing down communism wasn't the right or even the good thing to do... I guess it takes 50,000 lives to pop the nail in the head of the president that there is something going wrong.

Anyhow... Vietnam was where the reality cheque bounced. After that, Tactics and command went to where it rightly should have gone.. and from that point on, people in power started to figure out when to let military commanders do their jobs.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: So the
Friday, August 19, 2005 5:03 PM on j-body.org
Oh, In regards to Nazism, it was started just like every other German party not under the Kaiser, and every other US national party... Grassroots.

The problem is that the people that gravitated to the party were not altogether savory characters, and because of the fractious political climate after WWI, Germany had no leadership of consequence. Immediately after WWI, Germany was destitute, and was burdened with having to pay France and other nation's war reparations. For about 15 years, yeah.. things were REALLY bad, but things were getting done, the war reparations were paid, and the people were actually not starving on large scale.

The Nazi Party was founded in about 1934, and the heavyweights were pretty much the SG. You wouldn't have seen much of them because they were pretty much disbanded and tried for treason, the lot of them in 1936 after the Nazi Party was elected. Keep in mind, that they only recieved 31% of the popular vote, but they had more than any other party, and over 2 years plied the other parties to their way of doing things.

In 1939, Germany invaded Poland, and the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Nations">League of Nations</a> (which Woodrow Wilson helped found but the US never joined.. go figure) basically went to war with Germany. The US followed 2 year later.

Nazism (or National Facism) was hellbent on rule over Europe and Russia. It was doomed from the start because it was predicated on the oppression of the people... and while it's going to sound horrendous, the "final solution" (or extermination of Jews, Gypsies, non-conformists, bohemians, and non-partyists) never figured into the plan to begin with.. it grew out of several people's ideas that the German nation was defeated and was oppressed because of the Zionists. Since all Zionists are Jews, it stood to reason. I dare say, it grew as an adjunct of power, not as one of the roots of the Nazi movement.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: So the
Friday, August 19, 2005 5:22 PM on j-body.org
Two quick points.. First off, not all Zionists are Jewish. Zionism is simply the desire to have a Jewish homeland. There are many non-jews who would love to see all jews in a jewish state. It is as true today as it was then.

Natzis actually stood for National Socialism and didn't consider themselves facist. The two are not synonomous.. Musolini was a facist but he was no Natzi.

Number 2.. The real reason the communism didn't work and the reason that it never will work the way it was intended is motivation. Communism gives people no reason to achieve anything. If there is nothing to gain for an individule they will do one of two things.. One, non-participation because there's nothing in it for them, or two, participation in such a manner that it does offer them some persoanl advantage. This is what really happened and how communist contries ended up with super-corrupt governments (personal gain), and forced labour (no other motivation). Would you work harder than your neighbour even though you will be given the same "wage" in the end? Ya, I didn't think so.

People are inheritly greedy. For some it is to improve their life and that of their family, for others, it's just plain greed. Either way renders communism nothing more than a concept that is far to easy to exploit and turn dangerous. Besides even if it could work it would require the participation of everyone on the planet. It's hard enough to get 3 people to agree to do something let alone a few billion. Everyone has their own agenda.

PAX
Re: So the
Friday, August 19, 2005 7:30 PM on j-body.org
Hahahaha, Hey we agree cool. well for the most part when it comes to this topic and the few little minor details aren't worth fighting over. So for once we agree, Hey look its snowing outside !!!!

Gam I know there is a difference between communism and nazism but the two roads leed to the same place, a state run dictatorship where regular people are subjagated
into almost slave laber and given a meager existence in which to live. I'm just not gonna fall for it thats all. Not saying you would either I believe you like your life the way it is and all the freedoms that you enjoy along with it. Now if I offend anyone for saying I'll defend this way of life to the very end and if need be die for it as well then tough s--t !
But if you want to stand up and fight for life you have now I'll be there to help.

Complaine about the US all you want to but its still just about the best thing there is right now. With Canada being a VERY close second ( joke, smile, laugh )




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: So the
Saturday, August 20, 2005 8:04 AM on j-body.org
heh... Yeah.. But, if you think that just because it's the best thing for personal liberty, that it can't be improved... you need a reality check.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: So the
Sunday, August 21, 2005 1:17 AM on j-body.org
the thing is, every "ism" is just there selling an answer to the people that buy into it--a "this way is right".

As such, take the following defintions:

Nazism:
: the body of political and economic doctrines held and put into effect by the National Socialist German Workers' party in the Third German Reich including the totalitarian principle of government, state control of all industry, predominance of groups assumed to be racially superior, and supremacy of the führer

Communism:
1 a : a theory advocating elimination of private property b : a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed

Capitalism:
: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market
---
The above proves my point. Nazismgoes under the guise that there are groups considered racially superior, when anyone with even a single firing neuron knows that there is no superiority of any race--we all suck equally.

Communism and Capitalism though, in theory, cannot be construed as one better or one worse, and that's the very gist of it. Communism is a red herring. We only fought it because it was an ideology different from our own. As such, if yoyu take a stand against communism because it's different than what you've experienced, well, fine. But calling the theory "evil" or using it as a negative is like the Pope calling the Dalai Lama a hellspawn. It flies like a lead balloon.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaği, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

Re: So the
Sunday, August 21, 2005 7:47 AM on j-body.org
Gam never said its was THEE best but that it was close thats all.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: So the
Sunday, August 21, 2005 9:00 AM on j-body.org
Yeah... but I also said there's lots of room for improvement. I won't get into it here... Not germaine to the discussion.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: So the
Monday, August 22, 2005 4:56 AM on j-body.org
Who is Germaine? And what does he have to do with this post?



















Yes I'm kidding










Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: So the
Monday, August 22, 2005 9:31 AM on j-body.org





Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


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