As the drunk, sex addict Ben Franklin once said, "Those who would sacrifice freedom for temporary security deserve neither." On a random note, I'd like to thank the cowards in congress for now allowing Bush 45 days to get a warrant (rather than the previous 72 hours) and at that time the administration can just say we needed to spy on them and never get a warrant. I feel sooooo much safer now.
Agustin, as I was reading through this thread I was ripping my hair out because no one haad mentioned the Downing Street Memos, so thankyou for saving me. Sure, Bush got intell that said that Iraq had WMD's, but for every piece of intell suggesting that, there were countless others saying that Iraq had nothing. He decided what intell he wanted to use and then decieved the entire American public. The Downing Street Memos clearly show that Bush and the government were developing a political strategy for invading Iraq more than a year before we heard anything about Saddam.
Bush has amazed me because there is NO other president that could do any of the crap that he has done and not get impeached. Clinton got impeached for lying about a blowjob. Do you think that if Clinton or any other democrat had done any of the crap Bush has that he would still be in office?
Ok, sorry about that. My rant for the day. Now back on topic. Bush has, in no way, made me safer. Sadly, I think it is only a matter of time before some even more tragic than 9/11 happens on our soil. But I'm sure I am wrong because we're fighting the terrorists over there so they dont come here....Does anyone believe that, because I sure don't.
By the way, I'm not a democrat, so that wasn't supposed to be as biased as it may have come off as.
John Wilken wrote:The government doesn't speak for the people anymore.
John, you hit the nail on the head right with that statement.
AGuSTiN wrote: You're right, it's me you him her it's all of us.
AGuSTiN, then we actualy agree on something after all.
Now both of you, How do we fix this problem ?
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Tristan, Clinton wasn't impeached for gettin a blow job but rather for lying under oath and his illegal land deals in his home state. The BJ had nothing to do with it don't kid yourself.
As for clinton I remember him standing up right next to Bush and telling us all how we needed to go into Iraq. It wasn't just Bush that did that but rather our whole govt. If you'll remember correctly any member of congress that DIDN'T go along with it was
put in front of a media fireing squad. Stop blameing Bush for the whole govt sending us to war on a lie.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Bush the leader of the executive branch? He is the president, correct? Therefore he is responsible for the actions of the government. He is the person to blame for the actions of the government because he is ultimately responsible.
As for Congress supporting Bush in going to Iraq, there is far more to that. The information that Congress got was spoonfed by the administration to them. The administration wasn't exactly forthcoming with all of the intell, especially all of the intell that showed there were no WMD's. However, Congress showed its ineptitude and laziness in that almost no member took the time to get all of the intell. So in that, regard I'll side with you. Congress did support him and are responsible for the war, however I don't think we can hold on the same level as Bush.
By the way, the administration has a lot to do with that media fireing squad. They have called anyone who disagrees with them unpatriotic and constantly exclaim about how they are cowards and so on and so forth. Sadly, after years of the constant screaming about a "liberal" media, the conservatives have shaped the media into their own little play thing. It's only recently with the continually dwindly approval ratings for the president that they have stopped worrying about conservatives possibly calling them liberal and started reporting the news and investigating regardless of whose side the news may favor. It would be nice if the media could just report the news without being liberal or conservative or either side calling them biased. But that's another rant, so forgive me.
If I recall correctly, the reason Kerry protested the war years ago and tossed this purple heart was because he had been in that war... he seen the devastation from the war, and the loss of many lives for a war that many people felt we had no right going into to begin with, or many people wanted us to get out of because we were basically getting slaughtered over there and there was nothing we could really do about it... except get out.
To me that's not a traitor, that's someone with some common sense standing up and trying to save American people from a terrible fate.
If I was in the military and was in that war and seen what all was going on, with all the countless American lives lost, and our Government wasn't wanting to pull us out... I probably would have tossed my purple heart too. Not because I hate my country, not because I wanted to be a traitor to my country, but to look out for the American people and save more lives from being lost when we were getting totally annihilated over there.
I don't care if you agree with me or not... but if anyone was a traitor to the American people, it's Bush, and well... Congress in general.
The day the Government stopped speaking FOR the people... and the day they stopped being "of the people, by the people, and for the people"... is the day Congress started to betray the American people. The day they all started caring more about their pockets, and keeping their and their buddie's pockets lined with "gold" so to speak... is the day they all started to betray the American people.
If the salary and benefits would stop being so attractive, there'd be less corruption. Most congressmen were either born rich, or own their own companies or part in companies and are already rich anyway. They don't even work 8 hours a day 5 days a week 52 weeks in a year. Why do they get these large salaries and vote on their own pay raises? Because we feel powerless to do anything. Why is it that they get free state of the art healthcare for the rest of their lives, even after they've retired from office/got voted out? If any of us would quit/retire from a job, we loose our healthcare in a snap. Why should they feel so special?? What can we do to stop them??? Nothing really.
Even if we voted all those greedy slimeball politicians out of office, some other greedy slimeball politician would go into office. They say anything we want to hear to get into office, then don't give a rats arse about anything they promised us. What are we supposed to do? Get
every single person in the United States to stay home and not vote on election day and instead form protest rallies around our local voting places??
Quote:
Tristan, Clinton wasn't impeached for gettin a blow job but rather for lying under oath and his illegal land deals in his home state.
And et that is somehow worse than PURPOSELY undermining the constitution under the white elephant of security?
Bush's crimes are wose than Clinton's IMHO
Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
^ ^ ^ But as of yet Bush has not been accused of any crimes. Don't get me wrong I think things are efed up too but until someone can show where he broke the law then he never did.
Angel, Kerry's statements are what make him a traitor. He never appoligized nor recanted any of them so he must still stand behind them. Thats why I have a problem with him.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
I didn't know the executive branch could enact the US military for more than 45 days, matter of fact, I didn't know the executive branch could declare war.
I guess congress or someone else must be responsible then.
/sarcasm.
but really. everybody is an asshat, because here we are complaining about bush and how much we hate him and how much he effed up and all these god damn conspiracy theories.... where's a solution? gee, nobody wants to offer one up. asshats.
/rant
Jackalope wrote:^ ^ ^ But as of yet Bush has not been accused of any crimes. Don't get me wrong I think things are efed up too but until someone can show where he broke the law then he never did.
Angel, Kerry's statements are what make him a traitor. He never appoligized nor recanted any of them so he must still stand behind them. Thats why I have a problem with him.
So if you said when you were 6 that girls had cooties, but you never recanted that statement... does that automatically mean that you still stand behind that statement just because you never recanted it??
You're basically saying that anything anyone has ever done in their past still holds true to this day unless they've recanted everything wrong they've ever done... even if it was only wrong in SOME people's eyes??
KevinP (The IOU One IDB) wrote:
but really. everybody is an asshat, because here we are complaining about bush and how much we hate him and how much he effed up and all these god damn conspiracy theories.... where's a solution? gee, nobody wants to offer one up. asshats.
/rant
Do you have a solution to get rid of the corruption in the government? Do you have a solution to get these arsehats in congress to do what our founding fathers intended... to be of the people, by the people, and for the people??
What are we supposed to do, form a militia and overthrow the government?? Oh wait... that right was basically stripped away from us, and the military is too powerful anyway...
Are we supposed to have EVERY American Citizen stay home and NOT vote on election day??
I don't see you offering a solution either.
Simple Jack? what was the oath he took to get into office?
To UPHOLD and defend the constitution of the United States, yet he's trying to say it's okay for us to ignore the 4th amendment--which is part of the highest law in the country.
His approval rating is almost as low as Nixon's was during Watergate, and his fellow republicans are distancing themselves from him...
Not saying that Clinton's crimes should be forgotten, but i'd rate dereliction of duty for personal agenda a far worse crime than Clinton's.
Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Quote:
I don't see you offering a solution either.
...you don't see me comlaining either...
Sadly, I don't think Bush will ever be brought up on charges. He should be for the NSA warrantless spying, but I doubt it will happen as long as the republicans control both houses of congress and the executive branch (not to mention the Supreme Court moving farther and farther to the right). And then there is the fact that the democrats are bunch of spineless fools who refuse to work together and fight for what the majority of Americans want. If only the people who actually care about this country could get into congress, rather than blowhard politicians that are in it for money and who the hell knows what else.
Quote:
Re-reading that... you didn't... lol my bad. Carry on
But I do think I'm onto a possible solution.
Step One. Everyone meet up for pineapple pizza next Thursday afternoon.
and that's it.
^^^^ Pineapple on a pizza? If i had that my granfather would be spinning in his grave...
<j/k>
Anyhow, Tristan, the very problem you described is because there's only intrest in party and political dogma power games, and no one is going to to the right thing for the nation anymore.
Since doing the right thing is almost always the most difficult.
Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Yeah, sadly that's how it is. That's why I'm such an avid supporter of other parties. There are people who truly want to do the right thing for this country, they are just belittled as fools for not giving in to the two-party system.
Weve outsourced everything else, why not congress? Im sure we could get just as good representation from Chinese senators.
But on a serious note, its time for a revolution. Vote regular people in to congress.
Disband and outlaw ALL Political parties, that is not representation of the population.
Disallow all campaign financing over a set mark (figure 40,000 for all levels of Gov't starting at state levels, adjust annually for inflation).
Call any non-peace keeping initiatives outside the country an act of war, referendum on continuing military actions over 365 days from the declaration of war.
Hold all political members accountable for all statements made.
Rescind all National Secrets redactions that do not cover active events, set a definite iron clad limit to the amount of time that must pass before an item is considered no longer active. (if its that important to supress it, it's that much more important to OWN THE PROBLEM and fix it)
Independant department by department audits of budgets starting 365 days before an election, the president at the time must be accountable for the over-expenditures.
End term limits, create less stringent articles of impeachment.
Pass mandatory voting laws.
This is the short list
Before someone tells me to shut up like a good little Canuck, we've already got a couple of these items in effect, and I'd like to see more but, our Prime Minister is the person that is leader of the greater party... I figure making PM a Commons/Senate elected official might make it easier.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
I finaly heard a good argument against a no-party political system (I too wanted the parties system eliminated).
When elected, if a politician screws up royaly or abuses power they can be voted out or whatever. If they have no party, there is nobody to hold accountable. If the belong to a party, there is a corporate entity that can be held acountable both fiscally and politically.
It kinda makes sense.
PAX
That's exactly a good argument though...
If the president launches the country into an illegal war, fully knowing that they are contravening the laws with which they and everyone else abides with... do you all of a sudden impeach everyone in that President's party? No, of course not.
Political parties are good ol boy's clubs. It's a group of people with a significant amount of political power that use that power to get their way, they either learn to tell people that their way is what you want or they end up getting replaced. That is not fair representation.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
KevinP (The IOU One IDB) wrote:I didn't know the executive branch could enact the US military for more than 45 days, matter of fact, I didn't know the executive branch could declare war.
I guess congress or someone else must be responsible then.
/sarcasm.
but really. everybody is an asshat, because here we are complaining about bush and how much we hate him and how much he effed up and all these god damn conspiracy theories.... where's a solution? gee, nobody wants to offer one up. asshats.
/rant
Well I think I have a solution. I think many people here have thought of this same solution. But since I don't want the SS(I mean SECRET SERV|CE
) to come pay me a visit, I'll refrain from posting my solution publically... thanks.
Of course I doubt anyone will ever use my solution, but I can dream.
P.S. Pat Robertson publically shared his own "solution" on what to do with Brazil's President Chavez.
(if he was smart he would have kept that solution private - but I don't forsee him becoming intelligent anytime soon)
I've never heard of this "part throttle" before. Does it just bolt on?
Whoops... I mean to say that its
NOT exactly a good argument...
My head gets ahead of my fingers sometimes... sorry.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
But parties are so much fun!
Angel, As far as I'm concerned yes. If you say something and never recant it then your stance has not changed.
Keeper, Hes trying to serve the greater good by what hes doing. No I do not agree with it either. So its up to us next time to vote someone in who won't trample on our rights.
But if you don't vote then SHUT THE HELL UP!!
Tristan, The govt has been listening in on phone conversations foe YEARS without warrents. Every time you pass the FBI headquarters in Langley your cell phone conversations are listen to and recorded. Everytime you pass NSA headquarters in
FT.Meade your cell phone conversations are listen to and recorded. Everytime you pass the Pentagon your cell phone conversations are listened to and recorded. None of you could give a fat rats ass cause it doesn't effect you as you live nowhere near here. It effects me! I don't like it but guess what? Every time I've bitched about it I was told well if you don't have something to hide whats the problem? So untill you all start to get pissed at ALL forms of illegal listening then your just a hipocrite. So start bitching about us over here being listened in on as well cause it happens every single day. Oh and its been that way since Regan.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Jack: Project Echelon's grandeur is a myth. Conversations can be monitored, but not in such broad strokes. Reagan-era computers couldn't keep up with the speed of a regular human voice, and you could then, and now, use digital voice encryptors to breakdown the vocal sounds, encrypt the data, and then send it along. There's a lag in the transmission, but it can be done.
You can safeguard your own privacy, It's not impossible. Cell phones that are not 2-way GPS enabled, Digital voice encryption key pair units, window tempesting and signal blocking, using LCD monitors with a tempest coating, EM Damping blankets, power filters and recombinators, Ultra-strong variable ecryption and single use true 1024bit encryption keys... The list is endless... It sounds expensive and high-tech (It is, trust me), but if you really want to safe guard your information and privacy, you can do it. The other option is to unplug everything and TALK to people.
The Pentagon has nothing to do with Echelon, it is a CIA asset. The FBI can also gain access if the threat is domestic.
Probably though, you'd see a lot less trouble if the Government saw fit to keep its nose out of other countries. You know why a bear doesn't go after bee hives very often? The learn after the first hundred stings that it's not a good idea to do it... why doesn't the US gov't learn from that lesson?
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
