^^^^
See...there are these wonderful little tools that I like to call "LAZER GUIDED MUNITIONS"
It's incredible, they are precise up to about a shoe-box away from the intended target. I believe it was made to hit targets with high collateral damage ratings, or to hit moving vehicles.
Those sorts of things shouldn't be happening.
I mean, what do the terrorists need with a bridge or an airport? Or with a fuel depot for that matter. Israel's reasoning is total crap.
UpstateNyZ24 wrote:Quote:
It's horrible. War isn't a frickin walk in the park though.
No @!#$ there Sherlock. I've lived through war at the age of 7 to11 years. Not as a soldier with a gun like you, but as a helpless kid bombarded by planes just like thousands of kids over there.
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I really just don't understand what would drive a person to take such images and flash them all over the internet.
Why not? What are we hiding? Maybe some people don't really know that innocent kids are dying. I could bet that 50% of America believes that the middle east is made up of 99% terrorists.
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Like Isreal planned an air raid to attack a playground and a school yard.
Israel sure is not doing this carefully. They're bombing the @!#$ out of Lebanon. Do you think that they are really worried about collateral damage?
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I just really think it was increadably distasteful for you to put those kind of pictures up like that. Not only is it totally unnessisary, but it is disrespectful to the dead, IMO
I think it's more disrespectful to look away while all of this is happening. The truth needs to be told, this is the wrong way to continue these attacks.
I agree that the posting of these pics was distateful and misleading. You didn't include any pics of the women and children killed by rockets fired into Israel or the carnage left after a suicide bomber blows up a bus or shopping center. I'll assure you that there are pics of Israeli deaths that most would find just as disturbing.
Their are civilian deaths caused by the Israeli attacks, but their not the intended targets. Don't even try to say that the suicide bombers are not trying to purposely kill innocent people. At least Israel can claim that the deaths are collateral damage.
You dislike Israel because of being "bombarded by planes". Do you think Israel likes being bombed by rockets and suicide bombers? I'm sure their feelings are also shaped by history.
Here's a little light reading on the fostering of Palestinian hatred toward the Jews
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Heavily armed Israeli soldiers shooting at innocent Palestinian children caught in the crossfire. That is the image that has dominated international press coverage of the five-week-old wave of violence that has wracked the Middle East, during which, according to some accounts, over 40 Palestinian children have died.
With each new report of youthful casualties, the perception of something unthinkable -- that Israeli soldiers are targeting children -- is reinforced in media coverage, a great deal of which tends to favor the perceived underdog in the clashes, namely the Palestinians.
The reality is indeed unthinkable, but not in the way so neatly portrayed by sound-bite media accounts of Palestinian children being shot by Israeli soldiers. Indeed, powerful and secret forces are at work in Palestinian nurseries, preschools, entertainment venues, classrooms and summer camps - forces that shape the current and future battles between Palestinians and Israelis, indeed, make them all but inevitable. However, up until recently, this amazing story has for the most part been hidden from Western eyes.
Palestinian children are taught to hate Jews, to glorify "jihad" (holy war), violence, death and child martyrdom almost from birth, as an essential part of their culture and destiny.
As captured on an Israeli video documentary produced in 1998, a "Sesame Street"-like children's program called the "Children's Club" -- complete with puppet shows, songs, Mickey Mouse and other characters -- focused on inculcating intense hatred of Jews and a passion for engaging in and celebrating violence against them in a perpetual "jihad" until the day the Israeli flags come down from above "Palestinian land" and the Palestinian flag is raised.
Palestinian children throwing rocks at an Israeli military vehicle.
In one song on the "Children's Club," very young children are shown singing songs about wanting to become "suicide warriors" and to take up "a machine gun" to direct "violence, anger, anger, anger" against Israelis.
During the show, which features children aged 4-10, one young boy sings, "When I wander into Jerusalem, I will become a suicide bomber." Afterward, other children stand to call for "Jihad! Holy war to the end against the Zionist enemy."
In another segment, a boy who appears to be no more than 8 or 9 years old chants: "My patience has run out. All Arab existence cries for revenge" against the Jews in Israel.
The documentary also juxtaposes the children's programming with television news reporting, in which the news anchor - reflecting the same message the children are receiving -describes Palestinians as "noble, courageous" fighters, while describing Israel as "mean, fascist, racist, genocidal" and "Nazis."
Other "highlights" of the "Children's Club":
*
Groups of children are gathered together, shouting for "Jihad against Israel."
*
One girl, who appears to be in a Palestinian school classroom, sings of donning "battledress" to "attack the Zionists."
*
A small girl chants the now-familiar ditty, "When I wander into Jerusalem, I will become a suicide bomber."
*
An adult narrator reads material in a Palestinian school pamphlet: "I have raised my children for jihad and on the principle that they never give up on their land."
*
One segment depicts a small boy on the street chanting, "Revolution until victory."
*
Another boy is shown in class proclaiming, "We will settle our claims with stones and bullets."
In Palestinian school classrooms, the message is the same.
"It's very scary - it's a state-run educational system that teaches its children to be martyrs," said Meyrav Wurmser, Ph.D., an expert in Middle East politics who taught at the U.S. Naval Academy and Johns Hopkins. Wurmser is the author of the recently published book, "Schools of Ba'athism," in which she makes a comprehensive survey and analysis of Syrian school textbooks. What she found is identical to what goes on with the Palestinians, she says.
"In the Palestinian case, what we see is the cynical use of children, who are exposed to a state-run ideology that pushes them to their death, in the name of Palestinian nationalism," she says. "Children are taught to idealize death, to view it as a positive. In many cases, they are told that death is not death at all, but rather the beginning of a new life."
Wurmser is currently the executive director of The Middle East Media & Research Institute, or MEMRI, and has published extensively on the Middle East and Arab and Israeli politics.
How can children be sold on dying in battle?
"The state threatens children if they're not willing to commit jihad," says Wurmser, "and tells them they will be punished by God if they do not commit jihad. If they do commit jihad, they and their families will be benefited by the state. [Their families] are promised major financial benefits if they kill themselves in suicide attacks against Israel."
To get over the fear, explained Wurmser, "they are told by their teachers that they're not going to die at all. There is definitely an element of denial they are exposed to."
This is not to say that some parents won't object to having their children converted to terrorists, says Wurmser, "but in the more religious families, there is no sense of sorrow. We see Palestinian mothers who have lost children - especially parents from very fundamentalist Muslim backgrounds -- who are not upset at all, but who say their sons have brought great honor to their families." This is typical, she says, of "radical national Arab regimes who have adopted the Islamic line."
This shocking assessment was bolstered in an Oct. 27 Jerusalem Post editorial, in which writer Gerald M. Steinberg provided details of statements made by Palestinians to reporters after their children had been killed in fighting.
"Interviewed by journalists after [recent] tragedies, some of the parents of these young victims refer to their children as shaheeds (martyrs), whose lives were given willingly and proudly to the Palestinian cause in fighting the hated Zionist enemy," Steinberg said.
Palestinian man teaching children how to fire M-16 automatic assault rifles.
"In an unbelievably shocking scene, one mother boasted that she bore her son precisely for this purpose, and the father proudly claimed credit for providing the training. The parents will also receive a sizeable financial 'reward' from the Palestinian Authority," he said.
"For a people who count Abraham (or Ibrahim) among their ancestors, this willful child sacrifice violates the fundamental tenets of morality and ethics," said Steinberg. "The message of Abraham's non-sacrifice of Isaac was, and remains first and foremost, the absolute rejection of such practices."
We have Barney...
I love you, you love me...
Makes adults want to puke, but it's not brainwashing kids into violence. I guess that's what's necessary in that part of the world.
Keep the above posting in mind when discussing how the US needs to step in to this conflict, they're raised to fight. We've been raised to push buttons on a playstation controller and a tv remote. They grow up with war all around them, we grow up complaining about the cable going out.
.
John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
I am definately sure that the same casualties occur on the Israeli side also. However, in the last week over 300 civilians died in Lebanon, while about 30 civilians were killed in Israel. This says a lot about Israel's attacks. They might be targeting Hazbollah, but they are bombing the @!#$ out of the whole country.
I only posted the pictures to show the irony of this whole situation. There are Israeli kids writing death messages to the Lebanese kids who become overlooked and accepted "collateral damage". Do not forget that Israel justifies these attacks because Hazbollah killed 8 and kidnapped 2 Israeli soldiers.
In my opinion they are overreacting, I'm glad that a larger part of the EU agrees with me.
this is how Israel attacks "legitimate military targets". This is south Beirut
CAC2004 FSS#1, 2003,2004 Atlantic FSP #1, 2004 Overall Atlantic #1
Quote:
"We bombed 56 hospitals, 85 schools, 42 kindergartens, 4 cemetaries and other vital military objects...with our Stuhka Bombers" ~Field Marshall Herring
"What a blitzkreig!!!" ~Hailstone the dictator
Pretty much sums this one up and Iraq--Who would have thought the 3 stooges would have been so prophetic.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
if this ever to happen i really do think the next WWIII will be comming soon
Opening Soon Kustom J's
Remember the good ol' Cold War Days?
"Turbochargers were for people who can't build engines"
- Keith Duckworth, Father of the Cosworth V8. Winningest motor in F1 history
JinxedZ THE LOVED ONE wrote:Remember the good ol' Cold War Days?
Ohh, those were the days, alright. I was only on the tail end of it, due to my age, but there was an ememy you could at least respect. A big Russian made a much better enemy then some mal-nurished Hodgie. Those Pinko bastards would at least square up with you and punch you in the mouth wearing all red and with a giant hammer and cickle tatoo'd on their chest. Ya' can't even tell who the bad guys are these days.
I was thinking of this today, as a matter of fact, while shopping for cigars. This quote is direct off jrcigar.com...
Quote:
JR CUBAN ALTERNATIVES CIGARS
Handmade DR/HON/NIC
Wrapper: VARIED Binder: VARIED Filler: VARIED
Medium-Full Bodied
OK… so they ain't really Cuban… but 20 of these heavy-bodied Cuban alternatives will still cost you less than just one of those Commie-Pinko Havanas!
That is just bad ass.
Team GREEN
Suspension Division - "Handling Before Horsepower"
Making the turns since 1999
1998 EK Civic Hatch - Yes, it's a Honda.
Buying those Alternative cigars and expecting the same flavor/aroma is like buying a Cavalier and expecting the same handling/power as a Corvette.
I'm sorry, but it's not the same thing.
The Cold war: you could at least predict that Russians would do whatever was in their best interest to survive... Terrorist/Taliban/Al-queda/etc. warfare is very much an irregular affair.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
In Soviet Russia, affair irregulars YOU!!!
(you knew that was comming)
Team GREEN
Suspension Division - "Handling Before Horsepower"
Making the turns since 1999
1998 EK Civic Hatch - Yes, it's a Honda.
This isn't the start of WW3, you guys are retarded.
---
First, the pics of the dead kids is distasteful, secondly the shells they are signing are artillery shells not laser guide bombs. Please look into info before you go off on a rant. I have been following this from day one, as was stated earlier this is the straw that broke the camels back; the digging of a tunnel to capture one soilder by Hamas, and a week later the attack by Hezbollah on a convoy which killed I do believe 7 or 8 Israeli soilders and resulted in the capture of two more Israeli soilders. Now the reason that Israel is attacking is the fact that they have been trying to go the diplomatic route, they had pulled mostly out of the West Bank and Gaza to help along the peace process w/ the Palestinians. What did the Palastinian group Hamas do, shoot rockets into Israel and capture soilders.
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Remember that the "rocket attacks" that come into Isreal are home mamde rockets that are about as effective as a moltov cocktail.
. Wrong to a certain dergree, the rockets that are being fired by Hezbollah are supplied from Iran, and they are stronger than a moltov cocktail.
Rockets. Yes I know the site is Foxnews, however the article was written by the AP not Foxnews. Another article from CNN just so yall dont just dismiss it b/c it is Foxnews.
CNN Rocket story
Oh one more bit of info, Israel will not be able to attack the nuclear facilities of Iran due to the fact that Israel's primary gound attack fighter is the F-16 Fighting Falcon, which if anyone remembers was the same plane that was used in Iraq to blow up there nuclear facility back in the early 80's. The fighting falcon does not have the range to make it to Iran and BACK w/o mid-air refueling(
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-16_Fighting_Falcon#Specifications_.28F-16C_Block_30.29). Recently though it has become easier w/ the fuel issue due to Iraq no longer being lead by a dictator.
<a href="http://www.liquidgeneration.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.liquidgeneration.com/quiz/images/villain_shining.jpg" border="0"></a>
About the rockets. There are two groups to consider. The first one and most prolific are the home-made rockets that are being fired, they are terribly ineffective. They have very little range, poor accurasy and about as much punch as a grenade.
Then there are the rockets being used lately which are either Syrian or Iranian made (thjey have some of each). These rockets are much more effective than the home-made rockets but still are not what we think of when we think of rockets.
To us, accustomed to advanced military weapons, the work rocket conjures up images of AGM65s, tomohawk cruise missles (turbines, not rockets at all), Atlas missles, Saturn V
Etc.
All I was pointing out is that the rockets in question are not the massively powerful rockets we are accustomed to seeing and that needs to be kept in mind when readin about these attacks. A Hazbollah rocket would knock down a house or two. A NATO rocket would remove a block or two.
PAX
I agree w/ you on the principle that yes they are not very strong rockets, and yes they are homemade. However when roughly two hundred are shot off they still can do damage. The key is that it is not enough damage to work on military targets, aka bunkers, supply depot, etc. They are only using them against the civilian poplulation not against the IDF that is moving into Lebanon. Hezbollah is using Katyusha rockets more or less.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyusha_rockets
Also the reason the IDF is bombing homes in Lebanon is due to the fact that Hezbollah is using them a weapon caches. The reason all of the bridges were blown was to prevent Hezbollah from escaping north. The airport was bombed to prevent supplies from Iran and Syria getting to Hezbollah. Many tacticians know that when fighting and enemy, you cut off its supplies. Yes I understand people are suffering and starving and cant leave homes, hell most probably cant get off of the floor. It is unfortunate that people are suffering from this conflict. However, realize that both sides are suffering not just one side. I have come to realize that civilian casulities that are annouced are more for swaying people to take sides. Yes supposedly the IDF has killed between 300 and 600 civilians, but how many civilians has hezbollah bombed over the years at malls, markets, and buses in Israel. I find it amazing how quickly news broadcast forget stories that happend just 6 months ago or even a year ago. Just remember on both sides people have suffered and are suffering.
Hezbollah backs peace proposals
Lebanon just annouced about an hour ago that Hezbollah has agreed to a peace proposal. Now how many peace proposals have been done in that region, and how many are broken just weeks or months into it. The fighting will not stop until radicals on both sides are gone. Hezbollah does not want a large UN force in southern Lebanon so they can keep up attacks on Israel and once again begin to create large weapon caches to fight Israel. Hell the UN is already there and has been unable to disarm Hezbollah, which is the whole reason they are there.
AP article on UN troops. So just because Hezbollah has agree to a peace proposal, doesnt mean the fighting will quit. Israel will continue fighting against Hezbollah and Hezbollah in turn will keep fighting Israel until someone steps in and puts an army between them both. Israel is requesting Nato troops this time instead of UN troops due to the fact as I stated earlier the UN troops have shown that they are unable to accomplish the goals laid out for them in UN resolution 425, 426, and 1559.
<a href="http://www.liquidgeneration.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.liquidgeneration.com/quiz/images/villain_shining.jpg" border="0"></a>
The story is probably bs. It makes a point about the cease fires and peace agreements.
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A difficult lesson
When I was in the Navy, I once witnessed a bar fight in downtown Olongapo (Philippines) that still haunts my dreams. The fight was between a big oafish Marine and a rather soft-spoken, medium sized Latino sailor from my ship.
All evening the Marine had been trying to pick a fight with one of us and had finally set his sights on this diminutive shipmate of mine... figuring him for a safe target. When my friend refused to be goaded into a fight the Marine sucker punched him from behind on the side of the head so hard that blood instantly started to pour from this poor man's mutilated ear.
Everyone present was horrified and was prepared to absolutely murder this Marine, but my shipmate quickly turned on him and began to single-handedly back him towards a corner with a series of stinging jabs and upper cuts that gave more than a hint to a youth spent boxing in a small gym in the Bronx.
Each punch opened a cut on the Marine's startled face and by the time he had been backed completely into the corner he was blubbering for someone to stop the fight. He invoked his split lips and chipped teeth as reasons to stop the fight. He begged us to stop the fight because he could barely see through the river of blood that was pouring out of his split and swollen brows.
Nobody moved. Not one person.
The only sound in the bar was the sickening staccato sound of this sailor's lightning fast fists making contact with new areas of the Marine's head. The only sound I have heard since that was remotely similar was from the first Rocky film when Sylvester Stallone was punching sides of beef in the meat locker.
Finally the Marine's pleading turned to screams.... a high, almost womanly shriek. And still the punches continued relentlessly.
Several people in the bar took a few tentative steps as though they wanted to try to break it up at that point, but hands reached out from the crowd and held them tight. I'm not ashamed to say that mine were two of the hands that held someone back.
You see, in between each blow the sailor had begun chanting a soft cadence: "Say [punch] you [punch] give [punch] up [punch]... say [punch] you [punch]were [punch] wrong [punch]".
He had been repeating it to the Marine almost from the start but we only became aware of it when the typical barroom cheers had died down and we began to be sickened by the sight and sound of the carnage.
This Marine stood there shrieking in the corner of the bar trying futilely to block the carefully timed punches that were cutting his head to tatters... right down to the skull in places. But he refused to say that he gave up... or that he was wrong.
Even in the delirium of his beating he believed in his heart that someone would stop the fight before he had to admit defeat. I'm sure this strategy had served him well in the past and had allowed him to continue on his career as a barroom bully.
Finally, in a wail of agony the Marine shrieked "I give up", and we gently backed the sailor away from him.
I'm sure you can guess why I have shared this story today.
I'm not particularly proud to have been witness to such a bloody spectacle, and the sound of that Marine's woman-like shrieks will haunt me to my grave. But I learned something that evening that Israel had better learn for itself if it is to finally be rid of at least one of its tormentors:
This is one time an Arab aggressor must be allowed to be beaten so badly that every civilized nation will stand in horror, wanting desperately to step in and stop the carnage... but knowing that the fight will only truly be over when one side gives up and finally admits defeat.
Just as every person who had ever rescued that bully from admitting defeat helped create the cowardly brute I saw that evening in the bar, every well-intentioned power that has ever stepped in and negotiated a ceasefire for an Arab aggressor has helped create the monsters we see around us today.
President Lahoud of Lebanon, a big Hezbollah supporter and a close ally of Syria, has been shrieking non-stop to the UN Security Council for the past two days to get them to force Israel into a cease fire.
Clearly he has been reading his autographed copy of 'Military Success for Dummies Arab Despots' by the late Gamal Abdel Nasser of Egypt. Ever since Nasser accidentally discovered the trick in '56, every subsequent Arab leader has stuck to his tried and true formula for military success:
1. Instigate a war.
2. Once the war is well underway and you are in the process of having your ass handed to you... get a few world powers to force your western opponent into a cease fire.
3. Whatever you do, don't surrender or submit to any terms dictated by your enemy. That would ruin everything! All you have to do is wait it out and eventually the world will become sickened at what is being done to your soldiers and civilian population... and will force a truce.
4. Once a truce has been called you can resume your intransigence (which probably caused the conflict in the first place), and even declare victory as your opponent leaves the field of battle.
This tactic has never failed. Not once.
In fact it worked so will for the Egyptians in 1973, that to this day they celebrate the Yom Kippur War - a crushing defeat at the hands of Israel - as a military victory! No kidding... it's a national holiday over there!
President Lahoud has already begun to shriek like a school girl to the UN Security Council to "Stop the violence and arrange a cease-fire, and then after that we'll be ready to discuss all matters."
Uh huh. Forgive me if I find that a tad hard to swallow. He allowed Hezbollah to take over his country. He allowed the regular Lebanese army to provide radar targeting data for the Hezbollah missile that struck the Israeli destroyer. He has turned a blind eye while Iranian and Syrian weapons, advisers and money have poured into his country.
And now that his country is in ruins he wants to call it a draw.
As much as it may sicken the world to stand by and watch it happen, strong hands need to hold back the weak-hearted and let the fight continue until one side finally admits unambiguous defeat.
The guy who wrote that is very good with his words. I like his writing style.
Team GREEN
Suspension Division - "Handling Before Horsepower"
Making the turns since 1999
1998 EK Civic Hatch - Yes, it's a Honda.
I read a news article earlier that said isreal has lost more soldiers this year than they have in several years. I think that combined with them going the diplomatic route recently and still things are getting worse for them has led to events now. Also alot of the bombing in Lebanon is because their intelligence told them the soldiers were still there. They bombed major transportation areas because the Lebanese government refused to do anything, and they didn't want the terrorists to get the soldiers out of their reach.
On a side note, you can find cigars from outside of Cuba that are just as good, just don't go cheap and think you'll get the same quality.
well its all intresting to read i agree with augustin for once this isn't going to start the big WW3 and as for cigars try thompsons cigar company
Thompsons is very overpriced, they sell for higher than we do in state, and their mail order!
U.S., France Agree on Lebanon Resolution
By Walter Hamilton and Kim Murphy, Times Staff Writer
7:31 PM PDT, August 5, 2006
UNITED NATIONS -- The United States and France reached agreement Saturday on a draft resolution that calls for an end to the fighting in Lebanon and the eventual deployment of a U.N.-mandated peacekeeping force. But in the battle zone, the conflict intensified as Hezbollah unleashed a rocket barrage at northern Israel, killing three people, and heavy skirmishes erupted in the border region.
The draft U.N. resolution seeks "a full cessation of hostilities," calling on Hezbollah to immediately stop all attacks and for Israel to cease "all offensive military operations." The wording suggests that Israel would retain the right to act defensively, a term that could be interpreted broadly.
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Although questions remain about many aspects of the draft, it represents the first real effort by the international community to end 3 1/2 weeks of fighting -- in effect, starting a clock ticking toward a cease-fire.
The 15-member Security Council could take action on the resolution as early as Sunday, but it appeared more likely that a vote would not come until Monday or Tuesday.
The draft resolution sets out a series of "principles" for Israel and Lebanon to follow, including the disarming of Hezbollah and the establishment of a buffer zone in southern Lebanon to prevent the militant group from firing rockets into Israeli territory.
After a special meeting Saturday afternoon of Security Council members, Lebanese Foreign Ministry official Nouhad Mahmoud criticized several aspects of the plan, including the absence of a requirement that Israel immediately withdraw its forces from his war-torn country. "That's a recipe for more confrontation," Mahmoud said.
Hezbollah, too, hinted that it would consider a cease-fire resolution only if it includes an Israeli withdrawal.
"We will abide by it on condition that no Israeli soldier remains inside Lebanese land. If they stay, we will not abide by it," Energy Minister Mohammed Fneish, a Hezbollah Cabinet member, told reporters in Beirut before a Cabinet meeting there Saturday.
In Jerusalem, the Israeli government refrained from official comment, but Cabinet Minister Isaac Herzog called it a clear signal that Israel faces time limits on its military offensive.
"We have the next few days to carry out many military actions," he told Israel's Channel One. "It is a fact that the time we have is getting shorter and shorter."
John Bolton, U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, characterized the draft as "workable" and said council members offered "a lot of encouraging comments." "We want this to be a transformational solution that moves the region beyond the problem that has existed for so many years," Bolton said.
French Ambassador Jean-Marc de la Sabliere said it is critical to come up with a plan that can prevent further violence. "Who can imagine that such a drama would happen again?" Sabliere said. "It would be irresponsible."
Vitaly Churkin, the Russian ambassador, said "nobody is completely happy with a number of elements in this resolution." But "if there is agreement between the two parties, we could support" the resolution, he said.
White House spokesman Tony Snow said in Crawford, Texas, on Saturday that President Bush was "happy with (the draft) and he's happy with the progress." He declined to comment on what the administration thinks about specific details of the resolution.
The draft resolution, which grew out of a proposal floated by France a week ago, was clearly aimed at diminishing the power of Hezbollah. It calls for a buffer zone in southern Lebanon where the only armed forces would be the Lebanese army and the U.N. contingent -- and not Hezbollah. There also would be an arms embargo to prevent Iran or Syria from supplying weapons to Hezbollah.
The wording in several parts of the document seemed favorable to the American position. The draft, for example, called for "the unconditional release" of abducted Israeli soldiers but only of "encouraging the efforts aimed at settling the issue of Lebanese prisoners detained in Israel."
After the resolution comes to a vote, a second resolution would be needed to authorize the deployment of the expected international force and spell out its mandate. The second resolution also would lay out a political framework to finalize "a permanent cease-fire and a long-term solution" to the issues at the heart of the dispute.
In Beirut, a senior adviser to Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad Siniora said the government hopes to expand the wording to incorporate more provisions for a lasting cease-fire. "We may have to work on it to make it more consistent with the elements we believe are necessary to make the cease-fire a sustainable one," the adviser, Mohammed Shatah, said in an interview. Siniora's government is weak, and is struggling to assert itself in helping end the conflict.
Shatah said the Lebanese government is still hoping for U.N. endorsement of its proposals for Israel to hand over disputed territory to the U.N. pending a final delineation of borders; mutual security provisions that would prevent future Israeli incursions and overflights into Lebanon; and "international security support" to allow the Lebanese military to re-establish control and sovereignty over southern Lebanon.
"We're saying we want a cease-fire, but we also want a solution to all these problems," Shatah said. "Maybe some provisions (of the resolution) move it in that direction. But we want to work hard to make this a resolution at the Security Council that resolves all these issues. If we leave issues pending, if we don't tackle issues that can be tackled, then we are leaving room for perhaps continuation of the conflict."
More heavy fighting broke out Saturday in Lebanese villages close to the border, where Israeli troops have been trying for days to secure a zone extending four miles north of the frontier. An estimated 10,000 Israeli soldiers have been battling Hezbollah fighters holed up in hide-outs and fortified bunkers over a rocky, rugged 25-mile front.
Hezbollah reported Saturday that its fighters ambushed Israeli troops in the border town of Aita al-Shaab. The Israeli army reported that one Israeli soldier was killed when a mortar round struck his armored vehicle near the village.
A thunderous Israeli barrage struck about a dozen towns all along the border, with the heaviest directed at the town of Aitaroun, which Lebanese news reports said was hit by 2,000 shells.
Lebanese emergency agencies said 11 Lebanese died and 75 others were injured Saturday, bringing the official confirmed death toll in the country to 686, most of them civilians. Siniora claims the actual figure, because of the large number of people still buried under rubble, is more than 900.
In what could be a prelude to either intense airstrikes or a widened Israeli ground offensive in south Lebanon, the Israeli military called on people in the refugee-swollen Lebanese coastal city of Sidon to leave.
The city normally has a population of about 100,000, but many people from combat-ravaged villages in the south have sought refuge there, some believing that because Sidon is primarily Sunni Muslim, it is not a major base for the Shiite fighters of Hezbollah.
"We dropped leaflets warning residents to leave because the army intends to attack Hezbollah rocket-launching sites there," an army spokesman said.
Israeli military authorities said Saturday that the target of an early morning raid in the Lebanese coastal town of Tyre was a Hezbollah cell that had fired a long-range rocket only hours earlier. The Syrian-made rocket fell 50 miles inside Israel, near the city of Hadera, the southernmost rocket strike to date.
In the Tyre strike, naval commandos dropped by helicopter burst into an apartment building and engaged in a violent shootout with the guerrillas inside. The military said eight Israeli soldiers were wounded, two of them severely, and that a "large number" of Hezbollah fighters were killed.
The army said an airstrike on the five-story apartment building would likely have killed and injured civilians, so the decision was made to send in special forces instead.
By nightfall Saturday, Hezbollah guerrillas had fired almost 200 rockets at Israel's northern tier, with nearly two-thirds of them falling in a concerted burst over a 90-minute period in midafternoon. Israeli police speculated that the guerrillas' aim was to lull people into believing it was safe to venture out by firing only few rockets early in the day, and then letting loose with a sudden volley.
A mother and her two young daughters were killed when a rocket made a direct hit on their home near the Bedouin village of Arab Aramshe, Israeli authorities said. Dozens of other people were injured in the intense wave of rocket strikes, and an 87-year-old woman taking cover in a bomb shelter suffered a heart attack soon after a volley fell in Kiryat Ata, near Haifa.
Hamilton reported from the United Nations and Murphy from Beirut. Times staff writers Laura King in Jerusalem, Nicole Gaouette in Crawford and Alissa J. Rubin in Grinnell, Iowa, contributed to this report.
Team GREEN
Suspension Division - "Handling Before Horsepower"
Making the turns since 1999
1998 EK Civic Hatch - Yes, it's a Honda.
Seperate comments as to not blend them in with the giant post I just made.
I hope to see this conflict end soon, as with any conflict TBH. The UN security force bothers me slightly, ie I do not want to be part of any security force. Personal gripes aside though...
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In the Tyre strike, naval commandos dropped by helicopter burst into an apartment building and engaged in a violent shootout with the guerrillas inside. The military said eight Israeli soldiers were wounded, two of them severely, and that a "large number" of Hezbollah fighters were killed.
The army said an airstrike on the five-story apartment building would likely have killed and injured civilians, so the decision was made to send in special forces instead.
Quote:
"We dropped leaflets warning residents to leave because the army intends to attack Hezbollah rocket-launching sites there," an army spokesman said.
It seems that Isreal is refraining from bombing the hell out of over populated areas with their commando operation in the apartment building that put at risk their Special Forces Operatives. I guess the negative press from them stomping Leb. is starting to have an effect.
It is a war though, and if I was the one pushing the buttons I would have just taken out the entire building. It's colleral damage. When it comes down to it, I'd rather have some civilians on the other side possibly be taken out then risk my SF guys that I've spend years and year and hundreds of thousands of dollars to train. Sounds horrible, but you gotta look at the big picture as a leader. Remember, I am giving you a purely military POV. I think it is horrible that innocent civilians get taken out in these conflicts. Unfortunately it is unavoidable.
Quote:
By nightfall Saturday, Hezbollah guerrillas had fired almost 200 rockets at Israel's northern tier, with nearly two-thirds of them falling in a concerted burst over a 90-minute period in midafternoon. Israeli police speculated that the guerrillas' aim was to lull people into believing it was safe to venture out by firing only few rockets early in the day, and then letting loose with a sudden volley.
A mother and her two young daughters were killed when a rocket made a direct hit on their home near the Bedouin village of Arab Aramshe, Israeli authorities said. Dozens of other people were injured in the intense wave of rocket strikes, and an 87-year-old woman taking cover in a bomb shelter suffered a heart attack soon after a volley fell in Kiryat Ata, near Haifa.
Hezbollah on the other hand is doing the opposite. At least when Isreal takes out civilians, it has a military objective. (Stopping supplies, taking out weapon caches, destroying hidden military strong holds ect.) These terrorists (let's just call them what they are) are just pointing and firing, with no objective at all except to kill something.
The only reason you have higher numbers of CD on the Isreali's is because they have more powerful weapons and are more well orginized. If the enemy hides behind the populous as a human shield, then they become part of the target. You can't win a war by worrying about your PR, see Iraq.
My thoughts on how quickly Leb. is to agree to any UN resolution is because Isreal is so quickly wipping them off the map. As soon as a resolution is met, they are going to start plotting to do the same thing they were doing before. Why? Because that is what terrorists do. All they have to do is justify it with something religious.
Team GREEN
Suspension Division - "Handling Before Horsepower"
Making the turns since 1999
1998 EK Civic Hatch - Yes, it's a Honda.
World War 3? - Nope, not yet, the USA considers casuality figures of over 1000 dead per month to be a major "WAR". We are no where near that yet!
Look back on history, the USS ARizona had close to 2000 men aboard when that thing blew up!
The Trade towers had thousands in them when they fell!
The IJN Yamato, went it was sunk ent down with 2500 aboard
The bombing of dresden killed 250,000 in WWII
The bobming of Hiroshima & Nagasaki killed close to 1 million or more!
Etc Etc Etc.
This is nothing compared to what past history has to show for wars and conflicts...dont get your hopes up!
Just my .02 cents
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As much as it may sicken the world to stand by and watch it happen, strong hands need to hold back the weak-hearted and let the fight continue until one side finally admits unambiguous defeat.
x2. Unfortunately, we all know Bush will find a reason to stick his proboscis into this. I just want to hear Bush say "hellapolluza"...
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John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
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