CHO PASSED BOTH BACKGROUND CHECKS FOR GUNS!!!!
what are u talking about its not easy!!!!
Wow you are dense. Your right he did. What reason did they have to not give him a gun? WHAT LAWS COULD HAVE KEPT HIM FROM GETTING A @!#$ GUN?
It isnt easy to get a gun, but they had no reason not to give him one...
1HOTCAVFIRE wrote:anyways, Good luck to your country.........
Don't take ANYTHING personal folks, Im just proud as @!#$ i can proudly wear my Countrys flag on my backpack when I go to Europe in 2 weeks.......... cause @!#$ Id be ashamed to be called an AMERICAN........
Oh for the record, get out of IRAQ, its not your war, fight your own battles in your home country first
Keep proving what a @!#$ dumbass you are
Quote:
We don't need any more gun-control laws. What we need are fewer idiots.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, April 18, 2007 9:00 PM
1HOTCAVFIRE wrote:anyways, Good luck to your country.........
Don't take ANYTHING personal folks, Im just proud as @!#$ i can proudly wear my Countrys flag on my backpack when I go to Europe in 2 weeks.......... cause @!#$ Id be ashamed to be called an AMERICAN........
Oh for the record, get out of IRAQ, its not your war, fight your own battles in your home country first
I dont have a problem with you being proud as @!#$ to be canadian. i have a problem with you talking @!#$ about my country. And the iraq comment is a whole other post in itself.
sykeeok wrote: you have to be fingerprinted, get character references, get a license and register a hand gun not to mention the 6 week waiting period. oh yea, and the extensive background check.
^^^
well...that's depending who's getting the license....my brother filed the form, and got the approval in less than a month, he got it by mail then shortly after.......oh did I mention he's in the army and was in Iraq for a couple of ,months.......lol.......I'm planning on getting a rifle for target practice, it's less hassle and you do not need a license....(that I know in FL)
CaviFL45
1HOTCAVFIRE: are you really ignorant enough to believe that if he couldn't have gotten the guns legally that he wouldn't find another way to get them? And whats with the anti American bs, your an embarrassment to Canadians everywhere.
Why hasn't (unless I read over it) anyone mentioned that the guy illegally had the guns on campus. He may have purchased them legally, but he sure wasn't handling them in a legal manner, whether he had a CCL or not, Virgina law states the following among places which are
off-limits:
School property/school functions unless gun is unloaded, in an enclosed container (but NOT in the glove box or console) and in the vehicle. A car's trunk is considered an enclosed container. However, a concealed handgun permit holder can have a loaded, concealed handgun in the vehicle while in the school parking lot, traffic circle, etc. The concealed handgun and the permit holder must stay in the vehicle. Firearms are not banned from property open to the public where a school function is being held unless that property is being used exclusively for the school function. Violation of this statute is a felony.
Virginia Commonwealth University (8VAC90-10-50). Violation is a trespass charge
Private property when prohibited by the owner of the property, or where posted as prohibited. Violation is a trespass charge and not a firearms violation
Gun laws vary from state to state. In PA there is no waiting period, but there is a background check which (IIRC) has the same stipulations as the background check to qualify for a concealed carry permit. I can, and have, walked into a shop, which is a licensed dealer, picked out my weapon of choice, and walked out 10 minutes later with my firearm. Perhaps this seems easy, but read the disqualifying factors which keeps you from walking out with your firearm.
Other states, as you have read, have much stricter laws. I'm not sure if firearm purchase laws will ever be truly federalized past what they currently are. Could laws be made more restricting? Of course they could, and they'd still allow for honest citizens to purchase and have their weapons, be it a handgun, an assault rifle, or a shotgun. Will this happen? I don't know, but I have quite a few things I would love to see added to all state laws.
Examples:
1)Naturalized Citizens must be such with a clean record for x number of years before being allowed to purchase a firearm and/or apply and acquire a concealed carry permit. Furthermore, permanent residents are not eligible to own a firearm. This means a 8 - 10 years waiting period (those who marry a U.S. citizen and are a perm. resident only have to wait 3 years to take the Citizenship test as opposed to the normal 5 years).
NOTE: I realize this may seem prejudice, however, I believe that certain U.S. constitutional law applies to citizens, and those immigrants who have yet to become as such are therefore do not have the right to bare arms just yet.
2) Mental health issues which come with violent symptomatic mannerisms/tendencies and/or symptoms which could lead to such and/or the potential for violent mannerisms/tendencies further on in time. This should be common sense, but it seems though it is not so in certain states.
3) Expanding current disqualifying criminal acts -- how far the expansion should be I'm not sure. Traffic violations obviously are something ridiculous as are jay walking and the likes. Criminal acts in which a weapon could give an edge however could very well be included, i.e. unarmed robbery in the past could very well turn into armed robbery in the future. For those non-felony acts, a waiting period (I'm talking years here) before eligibility to purchase a handgun in conjunction with checks into activities (i.e. probationary period).
I'm surprised that no one (unless i read over it again) has mentioned education at all. It seems as though with many guns are "hush hush" objects of taboo. Bring them out in the open and teach children how to respect them, how to properly care for and handle the weapon in a supervised environment and let the child choose for themselves when they become of age whether they want to own and operate such a tool or not. Really, keeping them in the dark is about as bad as keeping sex and drugs in the dark, it makes them mysterious and just attracts anyone with an inkling of curiosity in them to them more.
Finally, it's been mentioned a few times, it's obvious Cho wanted to bring harm to people; if it wasn't with a gun it would have been with something else. Would you have made a thread saying that turkey basters should be banned if he had killed 32 people with one? I don't want to hear the bull@!#$ "guns are meant only to kill/injure", guns were created to expel a projectile, it's quite a neutral purpose; the person operating the gun decides how that expelled projectile is to be used.
^Because real arguments don't use facts. God man, get your head together.
Pilz-E, you're right, WTF was I thinking. Here, is this better?
GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD GUNS ARE GOOD
Brainwashed yet?
Skip (The Original Skip) wrote:
Finally, it's been mentioned a few times, it's obvious Cho wanted to bring harm to people; if it wasn't with a gun it would have been with something else. Would you have made a thread saying that turkey basters should be banned if he had killed 32 people with one? I don't want to hear the bull@!#$ "guns are meant only to kill/injure", guns were created to expel a projectile, it's quite a neutral purpose; the person operating the gun decides how that expelled projectile is to be used.
Exactly what I said, what happened pretty much would have happened anyway guns or not.
I just got back from Canada and last time I checked the country isnt made out of NERF.
How many steps to heaven, Doc?
...Ah, metaphysics.
Because 1 out of a billion gun owners decides to go nuts and kill some people.......................................now guns are bad? I hate mass media!! They never make a huge story about how a gun stopped a criminal from harming someone or how people use them as tools for everyday life. Its always negative. So be ignorant and let the media fill your head with BS that sways your opinion. Oh and thank God your not an American............your too much of a pussy you wouldnt fit in here very well anyway. Your nutz arent big enough ehh? eat @!#$ and die fag!
Oh and if you take anything Michael Moore has a hand in making as a source of an arguement..............well your an idiot. MM is a master at twisting things around to make facts work in his favor. Read MM is a big fat stupid white guy.................I belive thats the name of it. The book gives you facts about his life and the TRUTHS and FACTS about his docudramas.
1HOTCAVFIRE wrote:anyways, Good luck to your country.........
Don't take ANYTHING personal folks, Im just proud as @!#$ i can proudly wear my Countrys flag on my backpack when I go to Europe in 2 weeks.......... cause @!#$ Id be ashamed to be called an AMERICAN........
Oh for the record, get out of IRAQ, its not your war, fight your own battles in your home country first
funny because you even use to live here which would make you an american. just because i move to japan doesnt make me japanese.
fighting with you is like having a conversation with my 4yr old cousin. it may last 10 mins but at the end of it, id still have no clue what the @!#$ your talking about.
Wiezer Walley wrote:Because 1 out of a billion gun owners decides to go nuts and kill some people.......................................now guns are bad? I hate mass media!! They never make a huge story about how a gun stopped a criminal from harming someone or how people use them as tools for everyday life. Its always negative. So be ignorant and let the media fill your head with BS that sways your opinion. Oh and thank God your not an American............your too much of a pussy you wouldnt fit in here very well anyway. Your nutz arent big enough ehh? eat @!#$ and die fag!
1 out of a billion, try again 30,000 people a year in the US, bioterror attack which everyone is so worried about killed zero last year.
So lets see our US population is 301million, so divide 301 million by 30000 you get 1 out of every 10000 people will be killed by a gun.
So actually your one in a billion that will shoot someone is way. Assuming that each person kills one person we have 30,000 killers, assuming they each kill two people we have 15,000 people that will use a gun to kill.
We need stricter gun laws, go to almost any other civilized coutry, lots of them dont allow citizens to own guns even.
- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new
Rob S wrote:Wiezer Walley wrote:Because 1 out of a billion gun owners decides to go nuts and kill some people.......................................now guns are bad? I hate mass media!! They never make a huge story about how a gun stopped a criminal from harming someone or how people use them as tools for everyday life. Its always negative. So be ignorant and let the media fill your head with BS that sways your opinion. Oh and thank God your not an American............your too much of a pussy you wouldnt fit in here very well anyway. Your nutz arent big enough ehh? eat @!#$ and die fag!
1 out of a billion, try again 30,000 people a year in the US, bioterror attack which everyone is so worried about killed zero last year.
So lets see our US population is 301million, so divide 301 million by 30000 you get 1 out of every 10000 people will be killed by a gun.
So actually your one in a billion that will shoot someone is way. Assuming that each person kills one person we have 30,000 killers, assuming they each kill two people we have 15,000 people that will use a gun to kill.
We need stricter gun laws, go to almost any other civilized coutry, lots of them dont allow citizens to own guns even.
I mentioned this stat in the VT shooting thread in OT but not because I wanted to use it, but because I wanted to call it out and break it down. You can't just use this stat because it's using ALL DEATHS BY GUNSHOT. Guess what that means? It takes into account those killed by the police, those killed in personal defense, those killed while committing a crime (non-self defense), those killed in gang shootings, those killed with illegal guns, those killed with legal guns, etc, etc, etc. It's not just "oh, 30,000 people die each year from guns, so no one should own one." Break down the general stat before you use it, otherwise you're just twisting it.
for all of you pantywaists crying about the death by gunshot wound statistics...
to pull an Archie Bunker classic:
Would it make you feel any better if they were pushed out of windows?
Guns aren't the problem, humans are.
Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
red01zed24 wrote:1HOTCAVFIRE: are you really ignorant enough to believe that if he couldn't have gotten the guns legally that he wouldn't find another way to get them? And whats with the anti American bs, your an embarrassment to Canadians everywhere.
I agree 100%, when he wrote that comment that is the first thing I though. What does he think our country is the best damn glorious place out there? hm hm Dawson College in September 04, the alberta shooting 1 week after columbine, there was a stabbing rampage at my damn high school in Ottawa, Ontario (cairine Wilson Secondary School)on the 1 year anniversay of the columbine shootings, there are drive by shootings in toronto, people own guns here too you know? Yes, I love my country and most of the people in it, it is ignorant people liek you that are always saying "oh the states this" "the states sucks" "i will never travel to the states because of bush"..well what in the flamming HeII kind of comments are those when our damned country isnt
much better. ..end of my rant..for now
There are already 200 million guns on the streets. We have HUGE borders with two countries that have guns.
We'd NEVER be able to control guns. Numerous sources state that guns are used to PREVENT crime 1 million+ times a year (see second set of quotes), while only 28,000 people die each year due to gun violence (CDC).
I also found these stats on Wikipedia..visit the site for citations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_control#Balance_of_power
Quote:
Some U.S. statistics
The National Center for Policy Analysis, a conservative think tank, reported the following statistics:[7]
* New Jersey adopted what sponsors described as "the most stringent gun law" in the nation in 1966; two years later, the murder rate was up 46 percent and the reported robbery rate had nearly doubled.
* In 1968, Hawaii imposed a series of increasingly harsh measures and its murder rate, then a low 2.4 per 100,000 per year, tripled to 7.2 by 1977.
* In 1976, Washington, D.C., enacted one of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation. Since then, the city's murder rate has risen 134 percent while the national murder rate has dropped 2 %.
* Over 50% of American households own guns, despite government statistics showing the number is approximately 35%, because guns not listed on any government roll were not counted during the gathering of data. [9]
* Evanston, Ill., a Chicago suburb of 75,000 residents, became the largest town to ban handgun ownership in September 1982 but experienced no decline in violent crime.
* Among the 15 states with the highest homicide rates, 10 have restrictive or very restrictive gun laws.
* 20 percent of U.S. homicides occur in four cities with just 6 percent of the population - New York, Chicago, Detroit and Washington, D.C. - and each has a virtual prohibition on private handguns.[8]
* UK banned private ownership of all handguns in 1997. Since 1998 the number of people injured by firearms in England and Wales has more than doubled, despite massive increase in number of police personnel.[9]
* Violent crime accelerated in Jamaica after handguns were banned.
Then there's this... (
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/st/st176/s176d.html )
Quote:
Americans use firearms for protection an estimated one million times each year. Ninety-eight percent of the time, they simply brandish the weapon or fire a warning shot. But not always
* Each year, gun-wielding citizens kill an estimated 2,000 to 3,000 criminals in self-defense, three times the number killed by police.
* They wound another 9,000 to 17,000 criminals each year.
"Criminals are three times more likely to be killed bytheir victims than by the police."
Criminals may not read statistical studies, but they are generally aware of the large number of firearms in existence and of the fact that law-abiding citizens own most of them. Although violent crime and total crime reported to the police is much higher in the United States than in Western Europe, U.S. burglary rates are about the same, or lower, probably because of the deterrent effect of civilian firearms. Burglars say they spend an average of two hours "casing" a house to establish that no one is at home. They avoid late-night burglaries because " that's the way to get shot."Interviews with convicted felons are especially revealing:
* As Figure II shows, a survey of 1,874 felons in 10 states found that most worry more about meeting an armed victim than about running into the police.
* 42 percent reported they had encountered a victim armed with a gun, and 38 percent had been scared off, shot at, wounded or captured by an armed victim.
* A majority agreed that " a store owner who is known to keep a gun on the premises is not going to get robbed very often."
Further, this mentality that we need to ban things just because some people can't handle them as got to stop in this country. The "few bad apples spoil the bunch" method was good stuff for kindergarten, but not in reality.
---
You really can't blame guns themselves for any of this. A person has to make a concious choice to load a firearm point it at another person and pull the trigger. It is not a simple action. This is the case in the majority of fire arms discharging, accidents happen, but no where near on the scale of accountable decisions.
It is a societal problem not a gun control problem. Give the canadians guns and there won't be a change because of how their social structures work.
Cho was a disturbed youth, everyone around him saw this, and his teacher even threatened to quit if he wasn't removed from the class. All the symptoms were there. This was not disimilar to the Columbine shootings.
The gun just made it easier. If someone is going to flip out and kill a lot of people they'll find a way to do it.
I personally believe that no one needs a gun, but unfortunately the rest of the world isn't going to give them up, so its a necessary evil.
-Chris
Rob S wrote:Wiezer Walley wrote:Because 1 out of a billion gun owners decides to go nuts and kill some people.......................................now guns are bad? I hate mass media!! They never make a huge story about how a gun stopped a criminal from harming someone or how people use them as tools for everyday life. Its always negative. So be ignorant and let the media fill your head with BS that sways your opinion. Oh and thank God your not an American............your too much of a pussy you wouldnt fit in here very well anyway. Your nutz arent big enough ehh? eat @!#$ and die fag!
1 out of a billion, try again 30,000 people a year in the US, bioterror attack which everyone is so worried about killed zero last year.
So lets see our US population is 301million, so divide 301 million by 30000 you get 1 out of every 10000 people will be killed by a gun.
So actually your one in a billion that will shoot someone is way. Assuming that each person kills one person we have 30,000 killers, assuming they each kill two people we have 15,000 people that will use a gun to kill.
We need stricter gun laws, go to almost any other civilized coutry, lots of them dont allow citizens to own guns even.
As Skip mentioned, this includes all shootings, justified or not. The real question is how many people are unjustly killed by a legally owned gun? You will find that it is an extremely small percentage and that it is far outnumbered by the number of crimes prevented with a gun. The next question is does gun control reduce crime? Look at California, DC and New York for examples. You could also look at Australia and England. Compare the result that gun control has on crime, you will see that in these places crime INCREASED after gun control was initiated. I could really go into detail on this issue, but I don't feel like this thread is the place to do it. You could check out
Guncite to see what I believe.
As far killings at VT, it is a sad incident but it should not be used to "prove" that we need more gun control. What we need to do is enforce the laws we have and get rid of "feel good" legislation. How did the he get guns on campus, it is a "gun free zone"? The truth is that the only people "gun free zones" disarm are people who want to follow the law and mean no harm. Do you think the killer cares if he is breaking a law when that is his intent to begin with? Nope. There was some legislation proposed in Virginia that would have allowed those who can legally carry a gun to do so on campus. These are people who have gone through background checks, given instructions and a written exam to to determine if they know then shooting is justified and given a test to see if they are accurate enough to use a gun in self-defense. The school opposed that and the legislation was not passed. As a result the students had no chance against the killer. "Gun free zones" are really "easy target zones", this can apply to schools, cities, states and countries. Did you know that there was another school a few hour away from VT that had a gunman kill several people there? Did you know that he gave up after being told to do so by an armed student?
HERE is an article on what basically happened and how the media filters its news. The truth is that we should keep the bad guys at a disadvantage. One way to do this is to keep guns out of their hand and put the INTO the hands of the good guys.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Friday, April 20, 2007 5:14 PM
________________________
Ron Paul in 2008!
Constitution > Politics
Agustin: The NCPA isn't a think tank, they're Libertarian party hucksters.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=National_Center_for_Policy_Analysis They usually formulate their assertions to provide the maximum punch even if it crosses the line.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=U.S._gun_control_legislation <-- another article worth reading.
The problem is that because the issue is long-standing and divisive.. on one hand, you have a vaguely written piece of legislation that was meant to change with society as it developed, and on the other hand, you have a group of people that wrote the document before the advent of automatic or semi-automatic reloading weapons and high explosives, likely not knowing how quickly things would develop and evolve.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Notice after everyone started discussing like civilized people loser bot stopped posting?
How many steps to heaven, Doc?
...Ah, metaphysics.
1HOTCAVFIRE wrote:anyways, Good luck to your country.........
Don't take ANYTHING personal folks, Im just proud as @!#$ i can proudly wear my Countrys flag on my backpack when I go to Europe in 2 weeks.......... cause @!#$ Id be ashamed to be called an AMERICAN........
Oh for the record, get out of IRAQ, its not your war, fight your own battles in your home country first
Thats fine. We don't want you here anyway.
And oh for the record, not every american supports the war in Iraq. Stop thinking you have everything figured out.
You can't outrun the radio.
Rosario: Ted Nugent? Is that the very best you can come up with? A guy who hasn't had a hit in 25 years isn't a qualified weapons critic.
The link to Tom Plate's article in the same one is just as sage
BigJ: the laws that were in play were followed. The laws aren't the problem, easy access to weapons is the problem. Seriously speaking (Not defending the OP, because this is a belief that a lot of people hold), Seung-Hui Cho had to pass to very flimsy criminal records checks (which, if Brendan had read the actual VA purchasing laws for resident aliens was all that was needed along with 3 pieces of Identification), which don't include PERS or person records information, such as mental or weapons adjudication. NCIC was not checked for rap sheet information, and NO fingerprints were required to certify the information.
The fact that there isn't any one authority that governs the sale, transport and ownership of firearms... makes it even harder to reign in states with lax ownership requirements.
Making personal firearms illegal isn't an answer, but neither is complete de-regulation. The answer is most likely outside the box.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
