Just a quick question, where are the lifters in a 2200 motor? im completely rebuildin my motor but doing the bottom end first so just need to know if i should add these onto the list?

Thanks


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you have to take off the head to get to them, there under the pushrods and seated on the camshaft, once you have the head off, you take off the bracket holding them into place at the top of the motor. Its a bit easier with the whole motor out, because you can take out the camshaft at the same time. So yes, there in the bottom end, and depends on what you want to do if you need new ones, bu Id say go for it, you cant go wrong re-enforcing everything, less chance something will break.

ok one other thing ill probly be puttin my crank cam rods and pistons in before i get done with the head stuff this summer so i was just wonderin if i get all that stuff put in will i be able to change the lifters while just the head is off or do i haveta take the motor back apart again to do that?


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anyone?


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well what are your plans for the cam and head work?

there is recent posts on here that give the limitations of the stock valvetrain, and it can handle a mild build..and once you start messign with some things your going to have a hard time finding valve springs, lifters and probably a ferw other components.

your best bet is to figure out what EXACTLY you want to do now, it'll save a bunch of headaches later

Well yeah you could take them out with the head off and without taking out the bottom end, you just need to remove the holding bracket and take some needle nose pliers or something to pluck them out.

well im just building N/A for now and ill be getting the JBP performance cam until i buy the forced induction one since i wont have turbo for awhile and also will be decking out the head. ill be buying all performance stuff from JBP besides the valves. Just wondering if i could wait till i get done with the head and then change them out?


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Well you wont really need them until you put in the new cam, I dont think the new springs will collapse a lifter, but then again , what do i know. So yeah, Id say you can wait until your done, like i said tho, you can replace them with the head off, so its not like it will be all too tough.

the cam is in the block remember so if he doesn't want to pull the motor again, he has to put the cam in now which then he *should* replace the lifters also.

I haven't done this yet (I'm in the planning stages of a major rebuild of my 2.2 as well), but if you are going to be changing the cam over to a JBP stage 1 or 2, you are going to have enough taken apart to work on the lifters... I guess it depends on when you are planning on ripping that beast out and replacing it with the upgraded one...

Also, what pistons/compression ratio are you planning on running? Decking the head, changing pistons, etc. could affect your performance in the future, especially if you don't have things "aligned" properly for a boosted setup... You may run great for a N/A setup, but lousy with boost or vice versa.

That is the planning problem that I ran into anyhow... Especially, since I'm trying to stretch my dollars a bit farther...






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ill be puttin in my rods pistons crank and cam but if i need to ill replace the lifters. will i be able to use the lifters on the stock head like what u said about not being able to collapse it or whatever? ill just be running stock 9:1 so itll be the same until boost might get a thicker head gasket if needed just want to leave the compression cuz its fine for now and ill be a lil quicker with the all performance motor. so basically is the bracket that holds them in on top of the block too? can i use them on a stock head?


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?


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I think you're confusing the lifters with the rocker arms

the rocker arms are in the head

the lifters are in the block underneath the pushrods

what do you want to change?

well Yeah, if you replace the cam, your probably gonna want to replace the lifters. A big lift cam like that is gonna put some strain on your valvetrain, perticularly the lifters and pushrods, also your springs will take a beating. You should just be safe and do it while the things apart.

how long are the stock rockers able to last? i just want them to last long enough till i get the P&P head with everything performance in it. will it last because im sure it wont be very long after i get the stuff in the bottom end installed


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Lifters are in the block, the ride on the cam (which is also in the block) and push the pushrods up which then goes to the rockers. the rockers pivot and push down on the springs...if you are putting in a new cam right now..i'v always been told to replace the lifters when you replace a cam, whether or not it be OEM lifters or not you should still get new ones. (someone correct me if i'm wrong)

rocker arms are pretty durable i've never heard anyone breaking any and you can fit 1.6 ratio rockers with roller tips in the head relatively easy, you can go bigger but takes alot of research and modification.

if you are getting a cam with high lift, you have to be careful because once you go to high you can bind the spings, and that will cause all kinds of problems. also might have to get reliefs cut into the piston with high lift cams.

everything is pretty much designed together, if you want things to work out the first time and effiecient you should design the whole engine right now, and then slowly do what you need to do. or yours gonna run into problems later down the road.

well i'm gettin the crank. stage 2 performance cam. clevitte bearings. and lifters from jbp for the bottom end.

For the head im gettin SS vavles,1.6:1 comp cams rockers, retainers, locks, springs, ARP studs all that good stuff.

I dont think the lift is much bigger on the cam then stock. I dont think it will be anywhere close to hitting because nitrous nate has higher compression pistons (10:1) and the valves barely touch the top. I do know what everything does in a motor its just that with that lil higher duration i dont want a stock rocker to break cuz that would majorly fudge things up. wont have a smaller head gasket either if anything ill get a thicker cometic head gasket when im about to turbo.

So will all the things work since im not changing much? ill be getting a P&P head from Partiot-Performance but that dont affect anything unless its shaved a lot which i think still wont matter with only 9:1 CR until boost and then it will be harder to tune.

So will all the things work since im not changing much?

by the way just wondering how much taller is the piston from 9:1 to 10:1?

This help anything out?


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JBP springs, locks and retainers don't work with the 1.6 ratio roller rockers...

2200 vavle train problems

that link gets you to a thread started about 2 months ago (i believe) and has a ton of useful information about the 2200 vavle train

phlatcav had the JBP valve train and 1.6 rockers and they will not work together.

also i do believe changing the lift is gonna cause a little more problems then raising the compression, so you might still have problems with this build

Hmm well problems i foresee is your building an NA build, but wanting to go turbo in the future. Thats probably not the best way to go about it, perticularly in the piston and camshaft area. I think you said you want to stick with the 9:1 right? Well that will probably be ok, though 8.5:1 seems to be a good C/R for boost too.You can run higher compression with boost, but your gonna need to tune it well, and probably wont be running as much boost as some of the guys one here, but you'll have equal or higher numbers still and its deffinately possible, just remember to protect against detonation, and you'll probably have to run higher octane at some point. And the cam, you' might want the turbo cam, because its a lot less lift then the stage 2 i beleive, as the stage 2 is built for NA and the turbo cam is for boost obviously.

From what ive been told, that cam will work with the valvetrain alright, in addition with the 1.6:1 roller rockers. You have to remember, when upping the rocker ratio your adding like a .10th lift too. I think in another thread they said the stock springs bind at .480*ish, but im not sure on that. So if you got the stage 2 you might need harder springs aswell, but that would be something to ask JBP to make sure, they know our engines pretty well, their just privey. So it comes down to which cam? you sure as hell dont want to have to tear down the block again just to replace the cam when going turbo.
You want to build an ideal port velocity, without going to big, too big of a lift and youll be binding springs or floating valves. Id say if your gonna build an NA do that, otherwise just start building for boost. Either way your gonna want a built engine, but some parts you only really want to buy once. And by the by, whay are you replacing the crank? From what ive heard your probably not gonna break it, well at least no one I know of has. Id use that money for some rods and maybe boring out the block.

well see i would bore it out but ive already got forged pistons for my motor and rods. i dont know if i can send them back or not because they were just there as an extra kit sent to them but also i bought it from Flatlander Racing a long ways away from me.

for the boost CR i thought a lot of people were running like 8.9:1 which i could have with a little thicker copper gasket?

for the rockers just buy new OEM retainers and locks with thier springs or does that still not work because its the springs?

with the crank i just want to get a new one thats thats polished modified and balance or is that a waste?

the cam spec for the forced induction one has a lot less duration then the stage 1 and 2 but since i dont know the duration is it still a little higher so i wont lose power after putting it in?

i still want a little performance gain since i dont know how long it will be till i get the turbo on.


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?


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well see i would bore it out but ive already got forged pistons for my motor and rods. i dont know if i can send them back or not because they were just there as an extra kit sent to them but also i bought it from Flatlander Racing a long ways away from me.

for the boost CR i thought a lot of people were running like 8.9:1 which i could have with a little thicker copper gasket?

for the rockers just buy new OEM retainers and locks with thier springs or does that still not work because its the springs?

with the crank i just want to get a new one thats thats polished modified and balance or is that a waste?

the cam spec for the forced induction one has a lot less duration then the stage 1 and 2 but since i dont know the duration is it still a little higher so i wont lose power after putting it in?

i still want a little performance gain since i dont know how long it will be till i get the turbo on.

Anyone help out anymore?


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16.591 @ 80.52 - 1/4

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Hmm well first off, dont worry about boring it out or the compression ration, your C/R will be fine, and boring is just something some guys do while the things apart anyway. you see, more often then not you have to take the block in to a machine shop anyway because you need to get it hot tanked (optional) and balanced(recommended) as well as maybe sonic tested for cracks or imperfections (optional) So while its there its just easier to get it match honed to some bigger pistons at the same time, but thats optional too. Your rods may come balanced, im not sure, but your pistons and crank will probably need to be balanced. you see your changing the weight of the internals, so everything needs to be balanced to correct for it. But the machine shop will be able to balance it all for a lot less then those cranks your looking at cost.
As for the JBP spring rocker problem..I have no idea, sorry. I think it has to do with the spring hight, so find out how tall theirs are and find out how tall the stock ones are, from their, well i guess try and find stiffer ones with the stock height. Again, I dont know if that was the exact problem.
I also dont know how the car will run on the F/I cam without boost, from what i hear the idle is a little choppy, but it might be an improvment seeing as our cams are pretty flat to begin with.So their might be a gain there, i suggest you talk to JBP about it, their pretty friendly, and pretty knowledgable. If anything you will see a gain from the head work, appearantly thats the most restrictive part of our engines.

what all are u using in your head? ill be gettin the same head as you and it looks like u just got new OEM springs and then put on the 1.6:1 rockers? im guessing u know what ur doing since you have turbo on ur car and a bunch of other stuff? i was just wanting to go all out but i didnt think that their own parts wouldnt work together but if like new Oem locks retainers and springs will work ill just do that with the 1.6's. have u taken yours to the track or dynoed it? what do u think you are puttin out now?


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if you read the post 2200 valve springs...it should help you out alot