Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried? - Page 2 - Suspension and Brake Forum

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Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Monday, August 06, 2012 12:43 PM
EvoFire (Wilwoods on all 4) wrote:


Matt, I still think you should research other complete rear kits first and see what mods would be needed, then make a guild to modding or something of the sorts.


Something like this Wilwood Muscle car kit




Jason
99 Z24

LG0/LD9 for Life
10 Year Bash Veteren

Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Monday, August 06, 2012 1:10 PM
I sent a message to fetter for him being needed in here.

Agreeing with some of the above, I would also try to find a 5x100 rotor kit that uses the combination brake/parking brake. I dont see this as being overly complex. As far as the spindle, that will be the hardest part. I am not sure if you would want to look into billet aluminum or if you want to work with steel. Its kind of a hit or miss. Aluminum will cost more, but I would be completely happy with powder coated steel. Staying away from any sort of weld on them would be ideal. I wish i had the ability to design this like you seem to be able to. But you need to also remember for caliper placement, how long the cable is for the parking brake so it can still reach the caliper with no issues, also with suspension travel.


Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Monday, August 06, 2012 1:42 PM
Thats the right idea Jason. I think starting with something on this page Wilwood Brake Kits, with the offset between 2.75 and 2.81 would be ideal. It would be the least work.



Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 3:01 AM
Talked to Fetter a little bit about it tonight and he still seems to think you will be better off using that combination caliper instead of the internal drum caliper. Should hold just fine and a lot less/easier mounting.

"the combination caliper will work the easiest imo at keeping cost down. no sense in buying a rear kit that you have to then add brackets to. The combination caliper has a parking brake as well. in terms of weight the combination caliper would be better too."

A agree that it would be easier to run the combi vs finding a way to mount all the drum hardware as well as the rotor and what not. Plus you could quite possibly be tossing pieces that came with the muscle car kit.


Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:48 AM
The combination caliper works out well, its actually a universal caliper.
It has bleeders on top and bottom.
Also the ebrake cable bracket can be mounted for LH or RH installation.

I can help out with beacket dimensions, seeing mine are working out fine right now.
Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 6:43 AM
Agreed with the combi caliper. So long as it works better than the bullshat SSBC setup I have you'll be more than happy with it... esp at like half the damn weight!

-Chris-



-Sweetness-
-Turbocharged-
Slowly but surely may some day win this race...
Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Friday, August 10, 2012 8:59 AM
I would rather have the combination caliper too, but I will take what I can get




Jason
99 Z24

LG0/LD9 for Life
10 Year Bash Veteren
Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Friday, August 10, 2012 9:28 AM
SweetnessGT wrote:

Agreed with the combi caliper. So long as it works better than the bullshat SSBC setup I have you'll be more than happy with it... esp at like half the damn weight!

-Chris-


I thought ssbc was supposed to a good setup
Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Friday, August 10, 2012 11:01 AM
Blwn LD9 wrote:

I would rather have the combination caliper too, but I will take what I can get


You can get the calipers from me, along with my whole setup.
Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Sunday, August 12, 2012 8:52 PM
Awesome info guys... and makes sense.

I did some research myself, and it looks as if we are moving in the right direction.

Basing a Left and Right caliper with Parking brake combination these are the part numbers I'm looking at for a parts list.

QTY 1 Left Caliper 120-10110-BK

QTY 1 Right Caliper 120-10111-BK



From the 140-8423-D Front brake kit.

8x7.00Left Rotor (front brake kit)160-7104-BK

8x7.00Right Rotor (front brake kit)160-7103-BK



There are not many 5 x 3.93 Hats available in order to achieve the offset on a standard 11-13" rotor, so I'll post up some links and part numbers so we can get close to a stock offset.

The Combination Caliper will accept 2 sizes of rotors (0.81" and 1.00"), so the options will be scaled down in order to fit our wheel offset.

0.77" Short Offset (Front brake kit) Hat 170-8324

0.41" Short Offset Hat170-8269

0.5" Short Offset hat 170-6378

0.71" Short Offset Hat 170-9011

1.1" Flared Bell offset hat 170-6990

1.1" Big Brake offset hat 170-9206

1.64 Parking Brake Offset Hat 170-10108

2.08" Hat offset 170-10961



I haven't started measuring our rear offset as of yet, but from what has already been said above...2.74 - 2.81 anyone have an ideas how we can achieve this using some of the selections above.
I'd like to get an idea what rotor we should be looking at if we are drifting away from a standard 8x7.00


^^^ for starters.

Add, take away or select from the list.... and we will keep this going.

I'd like to get an idea how our part selection is going to determine the offset and mounting.

Also keeping track of the costs, so far we are approaching $800.00 for parts (Calipers $259.15ea, Approx $190ea hats.) Still need to add Rotors, hardware kits, mounts and cables.

Keep this thread pumping with info... lets get a resolution on this.

btw, can a mod change the thread title to Wilwood instead of Willwood... its buggn the shat out of me that I spelt it wrong lol. It will also be good for future searches.





Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Sunday, August 12, 2012 9:07 PM
Just a thought, and not necessarily a needed one, since I'm not sure if cost would be an issue for your project.

You could drop the overall cost b close to $100 by using a spot caliper instead of a combination calipers. It may look strange, but it would work. Like I said, not sure if cost is an issue for you or not.
.




Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Monday, August 13, 2012 9:40 AM
Here are your different rotor options. ( all 12.2" x .81" ) The SRP rotors are nice, but there are other choices in the same size that will work and cheaper

Here is the basic rotor ( plain face )
Ultralite straight vein 12.2" rotor is $32.99 each

Crossdrilled
Ultralite 32 vein rotor is $51.99 each

Next step up ( plain face )
Ultralite HP 32 vein rotor is $81.39 each

Next step is drilled/slotted ( curved vein and coated )
SRP curved vein rotor is $136.95 each





Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Monday, August 13, 2012 9:42 AM

Jason
99 Z24

LG0/LD9 for Life
10 Year Bash Veteren
Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Monday, August 13, 2012 10:45 AM
I cant seem to get any of those links to work that you posted, Maybe wilwood is having an issue on their end...

also for prices, we could/should maybe look to see if anyone is a wilwood vendor... that could help offset some cost. I know I wont be ready for these for a few months provided i get mine running and can save cash.

Also, a spot caliper WOULD work, but ill be honest that I want the stopping power but a lot of this for me would be for looks instead of function.


Did you see on summit a drilled and slotted rotor in silver? Thats what my fronts are, didnt know if you saw one for those rotors.


Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Monday, August 13, 2012 1:47 PM
BuiltNBoosted wrote:

I cant seem to get any of those links to work that you posted, Maybe wilwood is having an issue on their end....


I had an issue with the links this morning too which is why my links are from Summit. It must have been Wilwood's site as the links work for me now.

BuiltNBoosted wrote:


also for prices, we could/should maybe look to see if anyone is a wilwood vendor... that could help offset some cost. I know I wont be ready for these for a few months provided i get mine running and can save cash

Also, a spot caliper WOULD work, but ill be honest that I want the stopping power but a lot of this for me would be for looks instead of function.


I agree..outside of Karo, I am not sure who else is a vendor

BuiltNBoosted wrote:


Did you see on summit a drilled and slotted rotor in silver? Thats what my fronts are, didnt know if you saw one for those rotors.


Yes, I did see those and they were more expensive than the black coated ones

Zinc plated drilled and slotted rotors $157.78 each

Another thing I thought of is the hats. Wilwood provides all the dimensions for the hat, we could take it to a machine shop to see how much a small batch of 10 hats ( 5 sets ) would cost. It maybe cheaper to have them made then for Wilwood to make them







Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Monday, August 13, 2012 1:48 PM

Jason
99 Z24

LG0/LD9 for Life
10 Year Bash Veteren
Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Monday, August 13, 2012 4:53 PM

Guys, Dont get too ahead of yourselves on rotors lol. We need the hat offset and caliper clearence first.
When you click on the link of the hat, the compatible rotors are linked below, then we match the 0.81-1.00" thk rotor and overall diameter size.
These 2 piece hat/rotor combinations from Wilwood in this case could cause us issues if the rotor bolt circle doesnt match what we need.

If we get to a respectible parts list, I'll competative quote the parts, so no worries there. If we creep $^, then we break down the cost list and look at what we can substitute.

The SPR Rotor listed above is the same part number that comes with the Wilwood front kit.

0.77" 8x7.00 5x3.93 hats are used on the front brake kit to allow for rim and caliper clearence, so we can scratch anything less then 0.77" off the list.











Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Monday, August 13, 2012 5:41 PM
Won't the bracket help change the offset we choose? You think we should focus mainly on the mounting or can that only be figured out once a caliper is decided. I think you are on the right track with those calipers.

Im curious how we can make this work for quite a few different setups. Im curious how they will mount and float so that my offset of wheels will fit them and so will anyone elses... not sure how to go about this since im not much of an engineer...


Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Monday, August 13, 2012 7:39 PM
BuiltNBoosted wrote:

Won't the bracket help change the offset we choose? You think we should focus mainly on the mounting or can that only be figured out once a caliper is decided. I think you are on the right track with those calipers.

Im curious how we can make this work for quite a few different setups. Im curious how they will mount and float so that my offset of wheels will fit them and so will anyone elses... not sure how to go about this since im not much of an engineer...


Mounting can be figured out once the hat offset and rotor is chosen. Seeing the picture Shawn and Chris posted makes the design part easy for mounting.. and will float similar. Simple burn profile and 2 position mill set up will make the mounting bracket very affordable, and easy to manufacture.... but we will see.

Id like to hit a "almost stock or similar to front" offset for rim clearence and lug thread fastening concerns.

These are the 3 best photo's I'm using as visual reference right now. I'd love more, but this is the best I'm working with.







Once I get a chance next week to hit up the auto wreckers, I'll be able to pick up a rear axle beam assembly to measure up distances, vernier the hub/bearing and surrounding axle profiles.

Chris (Evofire) What depth of hat is on your set up our of curiousity?







Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Monday, August 13, 2012 7:43 PM
I simply love you taking this on. I really wish I knew more about engineering and offset and other things to be of use on it... hell all i did was find the calipers but wish I could do more.

I really wish I could wrap my head around all of it to put more together. Im trying to picture how to take up the space of the DRUM itself... is that where offset comes into play of taking up the almost 2 inches of space that the drum takes up now?


Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Monday, August 13, 2012 8:23 PM
BuiltNBoosted wrote:

I simply love you taking this on. I really wish I knew more about engineering and offset and other things to be of use on it... hell all i did was find the calipers but wish I could do more.

I really wish I could wrap my head around all of it to put more together. Im trying to picture how to take up the space of the DRUM itself... is that where offset comes into play of taking up the almost 2 inches of space that the drum takes up now?


Focus more on the depth of the caliper. The hat mounts on the bearing studs and mounting plate, and the offset will allow the caliper to clear.
The OEM drum has it's own offset for the trailing shoe, adjustment hardware and the cast hub.

Im no expert on a conversion like this either.. that's why I'm putting this out there for support lol. But as I said in the OP, I have the ability to detail out a project.. that's always a good start. haha. I'm learning a lot by going through this, researching, and what people have posted so far. I'll make it happen, I can't have 20's with drums forever.

If anyone with SSBC or the old BAER set up has any straight on and rear pictures of their Rear Brake set up, that would also be a big help for me.







Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Monday, August 13, 2012 8:25 PM
zdoubledozen [ Matt wrote:

]
BuiltNBoosted wrote:

I simply love you taking this on. I really wish I knew more about engineering and offset and other things to be of use on it... hell all i did was find the calipers but wish I could do more.

I really wish I could wrap my head around all of it to put more together. Im trying to picture how to take up the space of the DRUM itself... is that where offset comes into play of taking up the almost 2 inches of space that the drum takes up now?


Focus more on the depth of the caliper. The hat mounts on the bearing studs and mounting plate, and the offset will allow the caliper to clear.
The OEM drum has it's own offset for the trailing shoe, adjustment hardware and the cast hub.

Im no expert on a conversion like this either.. that's why I'm putting this out there for support lol. But as I said in the OP, I have the ability to detail out a project.. that's always a good start. haha. I'm learning a lot by going through this, researching, and what people have posted so far. I'll make it happen, I can't have 20's with drums forever.

If anyone with SSBC or the old BAER set up has any straight on and rear pictures of their Rear Brake set up, that would also be a big help for me.


check your PM's I have some questions pertaining to this.


Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Tuesday, August 14, 2012 5:20 AM
Doesnt any one read.
I have the whole rear suspension assembly modeled in 3D.
I have the offsets needed, and I have the integrated caliper modeled as well.

Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Tuesday, August 14, 2012 5:28 AM
^^^ Bobby, I'm starting to wonder if only a couple of people here are being listened to.





Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Tuesday, August 14, 2012 6:34 AM
Mr. Quick wrote:

^^^ Bobby, I'm starting to wonder if only a couple of people here are being listened to.


I see people refering to my pictures on here, but noone ask quesitons or directs their concerns to the people who have already designed a working prototype.
I did the STI Wilwood combo.
Front and Rear, so any question can be addressed to me.
Some people on here might remember who I actually am.
Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Tuesday, August 14, 2012 8:06 AM
I found this picture when Atomic put a Wilwood front BBK on the rear



Bobby Higgins wrote:

Mr. Quick wrote:

^^^ Bobby, I'm starting to wonder if only a couple of people here are being listened to.


I see people refering to my pictures on here, but noone ask quesitons or directs their concerns to the people who have already designed a working prototype.
I did the STI Wilwood combo.
Front and Rear, so any question can be addressed to me.
Some people on here might remember who I actually am.


LOL!! I know I know I have talked to you and Quick on Wilwood brakes.







Jason
99 Z24

LG0/LD9 for Life
10 Year Bash Veteren
Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Tuesday, August 14, 2012 8:43 AM
Bobby Higgins wrote:

Mr. Quick wrote:

^^^ Bobby, I'm starting to wonder if only a couple of people here are being listened to.


I see people refering to my pictures on here, but noone ask quesitons or directs their concerns to the people who have already designed a working prototype.
I did the STI Wilwood combo.
Front and Rear, so any question can be addressed to me.
Some people on here might remember who I actually am.



Bobby, I've seen your posts above trying to sell your kit, and said dimensions you have.... and the point of the thread is asking for help. I have solidworks 2010, I can work with iges or part models. Its not the fact anyone is ignoring you, its the fact that this is a support thread and if you're willing to support it with info you have.... awesome!!!! Ante up!! I'm not sure how to be more clear when asking for help. Saying you have dimensions is one thing, actually showing them is another, and I'm not going to be that guy who falls to his knees begging for them. Either way, inorder to cut cnc costs, I know how to set up burn profiles and coding, so the 3D models will need to be redone anyway to fit configurations. If you got what is going to be an affordable kit already, part numbers and required dimensions are what we need. If its not something you want to post up.... I think I can speak for everyone that we are ok with that, and we will carry on as we have. I'll let you post what you feel will work for the group or not. some people enjoy the satisfaction of a one off.... I respect that and id never harp on it. I just hope you're not that guy who wants money for what you have done in design, or expect something. I don't know.... I don't know who you are, so I'm not going to judge. You won't be ignored if you post what we need? This thread can be easily tossed if a how to is made.... now that would be amazing!

I'm still planning to bench test, but if anyone can save me the trouble with dimensions... post em up!








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