Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried? - Page 4 - Suspension and Brake Forum

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Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 7:56 PM


Hi

Progress so far.... Bought new rear bearings, cleaned up everything.

What you will see below are all standard off the shelf Wilwood components that do not require machining, line boring, or modifying.

The Left and Right Calipers are the same part numbers as the front brake kit.
The hat I used is the 170-10108 Subaru 8x7.78 Ė 2.29 Center (this way no line boring or concentric spacers are needed.)
The Rotor is the compatible SRP 12.19 x 0.81 Rotor on 7.78 Stud Diameter

I used a 3/8Ē spacer against the Rotor to allow for proper spacing of the caliper and hat, to prevent line boring or concentric spacers.

The caliper bracket is a 1/4Ē plate to prevent any costly machining. Which will use SHCS and lock nuts. ( I donít have bolts in the models at this point. )

This kit so far will still allow the JBO spacer kits to be installed. (Woo!)















Now I'm working on the Parking brake.....using a spot mechanical caliper, which will make it easier for an adaptable cable and clevis.

I will be buying the rotor, hat, and spot caliper next that way I can extend the caliper bracket I have designed to support the Mechanical spot caliper.

http://www.wilwood.com/PDF/Flyers/fl13A.pdf

Here is an example:







Iíve taken this in a little bit different direction then what I had originally planned, but I am more comfortable with designing to calipers I know work, and the reliability of an independent spot caliper.

Once I get the parts, Iíll verify the bracket design, and have a prototype caliper bracket made.

Also a bonus, is having the same calipers on both the front and the rear.














Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 8:01 PM
Dude! As much as i want to part out... I want this more. Matching calipers. Will they be in matching locations. did you make all those CAD drawings and what not as well?

Im blown away at the engineering you have tossed at this and cannot wait to see a finished product.

Wonder what happens with the 03+ parking brake cable. Isnt it longer?


Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 8:24 PM
BuiltNBoosted wrote:

Dude! As much as i want to part out... I want this more. Matching calipers. Will they be in matching locations. did you make all those CAD drawings and what not as well?

Im blown away at the engineering you have tossed at this and cannot wait to see a finished product.

Wonder what happens with the 03+ parking brake cable. Isnt it longer?


Well, I am an engineer, and yes I did the CAD drawings. lol

I cant confirm on the 03+ parking brake cable, but I do plan to have an adjustable clevis, bulkhead to the connecting cable stud at the trailing arm on my 00, and coupler the 2 cables together.

I'll be checking for trailing arm and strut interferences during the xmas break.

I'm going to do my best at matching the caliper degree location as the fronts.

Basically I'm transfering my front brakes to my rear brakes right now to get everything lined up.

Hopefully everything works out !!





Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 8:27 PM
zdoubledozen [ Matt wrote:

]
BuiltNBoosted wrote:

Dude! As much as i want to part out... I want this more. Matching calipers. Will they be in matching locations. did you make all those CAD drawings and what not as well?

Im blown away at the engineering you have tossed at this and cannot wait to see a finished product.

Wonder what happens with the 03+ parking brake cable. Isnt it longer?


Well, I am an engineer, and yes I did the CAD drawings. lol

I cant confirm on the 03+ parking brake cable, but I do plan to have an adjustable clevis, bulkhead to the connecting cable stud at the trailing arm on my 00, and coupler the 2 cables together.

I'll be checking for trailing arm and strut interferences during the xmas break.

I'm going to do my best at matching the caliper degree location as the fronts.

Basically I'm transfering my front brakes to my rear brakes right now to get everything lined up.

Hopefully everything works out !!


i thought you worked on worlds first aerosol recycler or something! Those drawing are bad ass. if only we had access to a 3d printer........... would be bad ass.

hope that cable idea would work. dont see why not. For the strut clearance, are your bag struts bigger than a coilover strut? Thats the only main thing id worry about.

What are you thinking for offset? Obviously it cant be 1 size fits all since wheel choices are the factor. Cant wait to see progress man. I wish you lived closer because id be over every day working on this.


Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Wednesday, December 19, 2012 10:19 AM
Nice work, and I like the look of the rendorings

I believe the Wilwood combination caliper will work on the same radial mount bracket that the front uses



Jason
99 Z24

LG0/LD9 for Life
10 Year Bash Veteren
Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Wednesday, December 19, 2012 10:46 AM
I have the radial mounting ebrake caliper already modeled from when I did my conversion.
Its the .81 rotor caliper.
Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Wednesday, December 19, 2012 1:52 PM
Bobby Higgins wrote:

I have the radial mounting ebrake caliper already modeled from when I did my conversion.
Its the .81 rotor caliper.


Nice, if its a .iges .prt, adsm, parasolid, or step file I can insert it into the model assembly I have and see if the same caliper can be used on this bracket.

^^ Im assuming that's why you're bringing it up?





Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Thursday, December 20, 2012 6:31 PM
hmmm, not a fan of the rear brakes being the same size as the fronts but very badass work, man.



It's nice to be injected but I love being blown.
Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Thursday, December 20, 2012 6:42 PM
-Z Yaaaa- wrote:

hmmm, not a fan of the rear brakes being the same size as the fronts but very badass work, man.


why woudlnt you like them being the same size? would look a ton better in there same size as fronts instead of super tiny rears.


Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Sunday, December 23, 2012 9:09 AM
one because of proportion. the front needs to grab more than the rear otherwise the rear could swing out on you and cause one hell of an oversteer in the wrong place, at the wrong time. this is why all OEM rear setups are smaller. than the front's.

what do you mean super tiny? the saturn's or neon's arent that small compared to the wilwoods. wilwoods are what 11"? and i think both the neon's and saturns are like 10". so one inch smaller...



It's nice to be injected but I love being blown.
Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Sunday, December 23, 2012 9:25 AM
-Z Yaaaa- wrote:

one because of proportion. the front needs to grab more than the rear otherwise the rear could swing out on you and cause one hell of an oversteer in the wrong place, at the wrong time. this is why all OEM rear setups are smaller. than the front's.

what do you mean super tiny? the saturn's or neon's arent that small compared to the wilwoods. wilwoods are what 11"? and i think both the neon's and saturns are like 10". so one inch smaller...


You do realize that the SSBC rear kit is 12" right? The front Wilwoods are 12.2" so the rears would match at 12.2" Not to mention calipers could be the same location as the front instead of one on the front and one on the rear. As well as matching 100% calipers all the way around.

Comparison of stock vs NWF, which is the same size of the Wilwood. Saturn would be even smaller.
http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy138/Roofy70/2012-12-14_23-12-16_849.jpg

Saturn rotor is a 9.6" rotor.
Cavalier rotor is a 10.2" rotor.
Wilwood/NWF is a 12.2" rotor.

Also, your master cylinder will proportionate the rear brakes. All they do is keep you straight while braking for the most part. If there is that much worry, the Wilwood proportioning valve is only $40 or so if you felt the need to change the pressure.



Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Sunday, December 23, 2012 9:48 AM
yea iirc didnt darren have the ssbc's with wildwoods and did a nasty oversteer ramming his front end into a curb??

still though man, one cant argue with the fact all stock oem setups are larger in front than the rear. has to be a reason for it...



It's nice to be injected but I love being blown.
Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Sunday, December 23, 2012 9:56 AM
Darren and one other person with ssbc rears had that happen. If your insistent on bigger rears for the looks buy a manual proportioning valve and dial it down a bit.



Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Sunday, December 23, 2012 10:04 AM
-Z Yaaaa- wrote:

yea iirc didnt darren have the ssbc's with wildwoods and did a nasty oversteer ramming his front end into a curb??

still though man, one cant argue with the fact all stock oem setups are larger in front than the rear. has to be a reason for it...


Zs Z confirms this. But Darkstars auto x'ed his ass off with wilwood big brakes up front and SSBC rears and I never once saw him or heard him spin out during auto x. You can bet he was heavy on the pedal as well as hard into the turns.

but for more info...
I just hopped on wilwoods website and scouted a few cars and it seems that they match front to rear.

First one I checked was a 2000 camaro. 12.88" front and rear kit with the option to do a 13.06 front.
2010 Dodge Charger, 14.25" front and rear replacement kit.
2005 Infinity G35, 13.06" front compared to a 12.88" rear. = 0.18" of difference
Trucks look like they are the same size as well unless you go with a super big brake kit up front.

Like Zs Z said, if that worried, $40 gets you the Wilwood proportioning valve.


Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Sunday, December 23, 2012 10:45 AM
yea i guess i didnt think about ryan lol he's the poster boy for this exact debate haha

the cars you used as examples are all rear wheel drives. i dont know if that makes a difference just pointing it out. also... if you compare the actual wilwood kits for OUR cars, the one rear setup they DID make was smaller than the front. i believe chis posted pics up of said rear setup in this thread somewhere.

and using FWD examples i honestly could only find stuff for honda's that had a rear kit available from wilwood. i swear to god ive seen cobalts with wilwood rear's but they must be custom cuz wilwood doesnt even offer a front kit for them. must have seen how slow moving the j-body front kit was said nope, not again. LOL

anyways i did find....

99 civic si - 12.19" front / 11" rear

significant weight shift occurs during deceleration, so the front brakes need to do more stopping than the rear brakes. larger rotors and more powerful calipers are used in the front to help maintain the proper balance. also, a different master cylinder is sometimes used to vary the amount of hydraulic pressure that is fed to each end of the system. the front-to-rear bias is critical when modifying or upgrading any braking system.

so, with that said... with the ww prop. valve would you need to ditch the stock setup and prop valves and run a ww master or could you just piggyback it onto the stock setup? would the ABS still work properly?






Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Sunday, December 23, 2012 10:51 AM


It's nice to be injected but I love being blown.
Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Sunday, December 23, 2012 11:02 AM
I would assume with the valve inline that it works the same. want less pressure to the rear, turn the knob down. its a very simple setup. I mean hell some could say that mirroring front and back brake setups would be for looks, some for performance, or even both. I know if I did it, id want matching. Fills the wheels better, and if need be, since im non abs anyway, toss the proportioning valve on and solves it all.


Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Sunday, December 23, 2012 11:07 AM
I'm doing it for both myself. Rears are ssbcs and fronts are an sti rotor.



Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Sunday, December 23, 2012 11:13 AM
sounds ok for you guys to me but i still want to have a smaller setup in the rear for mine.



It's nice to be injected but I love being blown.
Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Sunday, December 23, 2012 1:35 PM
There's more to braking power than rotor diameter. Proportioning, number of pistons, piston diameter, the actual effective surface area of the pad on the rotor, pad composition and rotor material. Saying X diameter vs Y diameter means nothing unless all of the other variables are the same.



Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Thursday, February 07, 2013 3:21 PM
My fronts are 12.84, and my rears are 12.50.
Yummy!
Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Wednesday, April 17, 2013 4:48 PM

Almost done....Just need to finish the E Brake function.... will have part numbers up once it's done and tested

I went a different route then above... and bought the cost wayyyy down.

It's direct bolt on, no cutting or modifying.














Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Wednesday, April 17, 2013 5:06 PM
Love it. Sorry I have not been on skype to discuss stuff about it. Absolutely love your colors.



Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Wednesday, April 17, 2013 9:22 PM
Looks good dude, but by the looks of it, you have the rotor going backwards.



Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Thursday, April 18, 2013 5:23 AM
gtpsunfire wrote:

Looks good dude, but by the looks of it, you have the rotor going backwards.


BAH! Darren, you know me better then that... this was a fitment picture to show progress or less I would have went crazy and snapped pictures of everything lol

But I knew someone would point out the obvious... I'm glad it was you







Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Thursday, April 18, 2013 5:48 AM
Thats the best rear brake setup yet man..GREAT JOB!!! Looks so clean and like it kinda belongs there..Im stoked..
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