Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried? - Suspension and Brake Forum

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Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Friday, August 03, 2012 6:29 PM
I'm looking at starting another project on the car this winter..... I've heard there's someone who had a prototype Willwood rear brake kit done, and been thinking about taking on this challenge, but thought I'd get some input first from the crew.

I've have called into BAER, and they no longer produce the rear disc conversion kit anymore. SSBC still do produce the 12" 1-piston conversion, but.... Im curious to know if anyone has attempted or looked at using the Willwood front brake kit and using fabricated components to create a rear disc conversion.

I'm not an expert by any means in the brakes department (currently), but have the ability to detail a project and if its remotely possible, I tend to just make it happen... safely of course.

Couple of ideas I was thinking about doing.

Converting to OEM Neon rear brakes, or OEM F-body rear brakes and fabricating required brackets and using the J-body Willwood front brake kit
Using the front brake caliper brackets from a J-body, and fabricating mounts on the rear, then using the Willwood front brake kit.

I guess a couple of things before anyone who replies....

If none of the above cant be done.... help me understand why.
If it hasnt been tried, lets throw together ideas and I can experiment.
If you don't think it can be done, but you really don't have enough knowledge to justify it... don't bother replying lol.
Yes, I understand safety is number 1.

Looking for some expert answers, and by all means I won't be offended if you tell me I'm off my rocker lol.

Thanks fellas






Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Friday, August 03, 2012 6:53 PM
I had been looking into doing a Willwood set up for the rears either using SRT4 set up or a N/W/F set up with an internal parking brake. The only issue I've seen so far is getting the right combination of rotor, rotor hat, and caliper that works for any of the for mentioned set ups.

I would love to be able to work something out for rears, but with a rotor 12" or smaller.


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Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Friday, August 03, 2012 7:39 PM
You've got a few options. I've been looking at putting together a Wilwood setup using their combination caliper and an 11" Wilwood disc and custom rotor hats. It would be a very nice setup.

There is also someone here who used the Wilwood combination caliper and STi rotors that works well.






Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Friday, August 03, 2012 8:10 PM
Fetter is looking into making the brackets or getting them made and possibly using this caliper so that you can retain the parking brake since its a cable operating brake.
http://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/CaliperList.aspx?subname=Combination%20P-Brake

Not sure how far he got on them but I will definitely be in once he gets it figure out and nailed down.


Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Friday, August 03, 2012 8:35 PM
as far as doing the front kit on the rear yes it has been done. adam "Atomic" did it a few years back on his race car.

if you look there's bound to be pics around here somewhere.


the "prototype" kit was bought by chris wolff "evofire" from the guy that had wilwood actually produce it.


Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Friday, August 03, 2012 8:37 PM


I choose the technology built for land speed records... not the technology built to save on emissions and gas mileage.
Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Friday, August 03, 2012 10:04 PM
I did a "Baer"/F-body rear kit. 11.5" rotors.



Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Friday, August 03, 2012 10:13 PM
IMO, the easiest thing to do will be to take an off the shelf wilwood REAR kit and make it work. all that would need to be done is machining for the hub. and spacing the hub to work with the hat



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Friday, August 03, 2012 10:36 PM


Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Saturday, August 04, 2012 2:57 AM
Again just want to stress the parking brake part. The Wilwood front J body kit does not have partitions for an e-brake. The one I posted does have that bracket and hardware for it to function correctly.

"Wilwood's Combination Parking Brake (CPB) Hydra-Mechanical Caliper uses hydraulic pressure for stopping and a mechanical locking mechanism for a parking brake. This redesigned unit provides new options for drum brake conversions and disc upgrades on rear axles that are not conducive to internal shoe systems. This caliper, when matched with the correctly proportionate rotor diameter, provides balanced bias and brake performance for use in conjunction with front wheel brake upgrades. "

That seems to be the best/easiest to me and you can use up to a 13" rotor for them. Yes it is only a single piston caliper but thats all it needs to be back there anyway.


Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Saturday, August 04, 2012 7:09 AM
I have been here waaay too long to remember all of this.

There has been at least 2 GP feelers for just the rear brackets that have never gone through.

I did some digging and found 2 rather long threads on the subject. Sorry, these threads are quite old so all the pics may not work

Viper's Design

Atomic Fabrication








Jason
99 Z24

LG0/LD9 for Life
10 Year Bash Veteren
Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Sunday, August 05, 2012 7:27 AM
In all fairness, the baer rears "have" the provisions for a parking brake but in my experience it doesn't really work.

I believe evofire's wilwoods actually have a seperate parking brake mechanism (shoes/built in drum) as opposed to the bares which merely force the brake pads on to the rotor



Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Sunday, August 05, 2012 9:34 AM
Here's the one with the Wilwood combination caliper and the STi rotors:




This is the same caliper the one I've been working on uses, except with an 11" x .81" Wilwood 2 piece rotors and custom hats.
I'm also looking at using a plate adapter behind the hub instead of bolting onto the back of the hub mount with only 2 bolts. He hasn't had any issues, but I just wouldn't trust that.






Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Sunday, August 05, 2012 11:14 AM
strat81 wrote:

I believe evofire's wilwoods actually have a seperate parking brake mechanism (shoes/built in drum) as opposed to the bares which merely force the brake pads on to the rotor


yup



Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Sunday, August 05, 2012 8:54 PM
Guys,

Great stuff here, and I'm glad to see some big names step up and reply to my questions.
I read through the linked threads, and there's some information,... both threads died without really finalizing anything.
I noticed a few things while going through the linked threads.

1) The attempts had a hard time accessing CNC machinists with respectful rates
2) People didn't exactly have the cash to research and develop
3) Arguments started when they shouldnt have
4) People who really didnt have any idea what they were talking about poluted the thread.

Here's the scoop.

I'm an Engineer, I project manage everyday. I have access to CNC machines to write *.NC coding using mastercam. I have endless access to machine shops, and machine shops in my area want my business.
Given that, I will offor my time to design and program to make required brackets, which will be machined at a cost of material since I would have engineered and programmed the part.

That being said... lets take 12 years of talk, and make it happen... when I want something bad enough, I do it.

I would like to offor the following to make this happen, because I'm going to need some expert help here. Like I said above, I'm no expert (currently) but with you guys educating me on what I need to watch for or try... I will hopefully become one.

My plan will be to take a trailing arm from a local wreckers, and use it for prototype fit.

I'm not sure what kit I should start with, so with the help from you guys, I can purchase a kit that will work due to hat, rotor, caliper, ebrake combination... and move forward from there.

I'll take it apon myself to purchase and pay premium rates to build a kit... and once installed, tested, and proven safe. I can then post a DYI with part numbers and overall cost.

If you guys can help, I'd like for this to happen, and I would really appreciate it.

Vince, you seem to have some good knowledge in the brake kit department... what kit do you recommend that I should look into? If you're talking to Fetter, could you get him to chime in.
EVO, are you able to help out with pictures of what you have now? Maybe we can get a resolution in-order for you to have replacement parts.. unless this was resolved with your kit.

I'm not wanting this to start into a group buy or anything.. more so J-body Masterminds joining together to make a kit that has been talked about too much... but making it happen. Pictures, hand sketches, part numbers, web links.. anything is gold.

Looking forward to your replies.










Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Sunday, August 05, 2012 9:35 PM
Here are the only pics I have of it off the car from before installation.







A couple installed ones.







What I can tell you about the kit and this is from talking to the person that sold the parts to the company that pieced it all together, is that it is an off the shelf kit for a ford 9 inch rear end machined to accept the Jbody hub. This kit has been discontinued, to introduce a different one for that rear end. The drum is the only part that I do not have a number for. and that is because between Wilwood and Gravana, no one could tell me for sure who supplied it.

My honest opinion, this design is old but the only one so I am proud to have it. IMO A drum ebrake setup will ALWAYS work better on a jbody because of the mechanical parking brake design and the physics used to engage the mechanism. Now the rotor and caliper setup is great for normal braking, but IMO not for the ebrake part.

I would say that the best bet would be to research Wilwood kits already in production, and start with one of them and machine the backing plate, and maybe machine spacers for the hub to line the drum up right. my drum back spacing is like 2.78 inches form inside of drum to backplate. I think the size Wilwood replaced it with is 3 inches. A spacer between the hub and back plate would fix that.


Anywho, i have a book i made of every part number ill ever need, and i would share, if this stuff wasnt limited now. But what I stated above is my best help...


Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Sunday, August 05, 2012 9:45 PM


Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Monday, August 06, 2012 5:33 AM
IMO, the combination caliper is still the best bet.

As far as making a kit using Wilwood parts and a drum parking brake, the best bet is to check out their "Big Ford" rear kit with an 11" rotor. The rotors are not drilled for a wheel bolt pattern, but have a larger hub bore. In order to make this kit work, a custom backing plate with the J-body hub mount pattern, and hub rings would be needed, but other than that, it's a pretty good starting point.

There is also a Subaru rear kit, made for the factory parking brake, but I'm not sure if there is much to make the Subaru parking brake setup work with the J-body cables.

With the combination caliper, you can do anywhere from 11" to 13" rotors, and the parking brake can easily be made to work with our cables. For most guys here, the 11" would be the best choice, allowing a good balance with 12" or 13" fronts. By chosing a different rotor bolt pattern, you have more options for rotor sizes, and you can make hats to the exact need, instead of using something they have and having to offset the caliper, rotor, or hub to make things line up, which ultimately ends up giving potentially unwanted side effects, such as increasing wheel spacing too much.






Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Monday, August 06, 2012 6:38 AM
subscribed





RIP JESSE GERARD.....Youll always be in my thoughts and prayers...



Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Monday, August 06, 2012 8:40 AM
I am still interested in a Wilwood rear brake solution




Jason
99 Z24

LG0/LD9 for Life
10 Year Bash Veteren
Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Monday, August 06, 2012 10:40 AM
yea i too would like a wilwood rear setup to match my fronts......






RIP JESSE GERARD.....Youll always be in my thoughts and prayers...



Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Monday, August 06, 2012 10:44 AM
evofire wrote:

The drum is the only part that I do not have a number for. and that is because between Wilwood and Gravana, no one could tell me for sure who supplied it.

Anywho, i have a book i made of every part number ill ever need, and i would share, if this stuff wasnt limited now. But what I stated above is my best help...


so you dont need the drum?? either you have all the part numbers for your exact kit and can duplicate it exactly or not.. which is it?

all i know is i want a kit that matches the ww j-body dynapro front kit. a kit that has the lightweight two-piece rotor design. a kit that my ebrake will work and work WELL with. and a kit that i literally can just read a manual and install it. no custom drilling.. no custom cutting.. no custom jack ish. a bolt on kit that is as easy as doing a brake job. thats what i WANT. will i get it? probably not but i can dream can i?



I choose the technology built for land speed records... not the technology built to save on emissions and gas mileage.
Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Monday, August 06, 2012 11:18 AM
shut up brad...i can duplicate it yes....after having a custom drum made.



Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Monday, August 06, 2012 11:38 AM
Im selling my kit if anyone wants them?????
The Wilwood STI combo above, is the one im selling!!!!!


Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Monday, August 06, 2012 11:41 AM
Is Karo still the best place to get the front Wilwood kit??




Jason
99 Z24

LG0/LD9 for Life
10 Year Bash Veteren
Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Monday, August 06, 2012 11:44 AM
How much?



Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Monday, August 06, 2012 11:53 AM
-Z Yaaaa- wrote:

evofire wrote:

The drum is the only part that I do not have a number for. and that is because between Wilwood and Gravana, no one could tell me for sure who supplied it.

Anywho, i have a book i made of every part number ill ever need, and i would share, if this stuff wasnt limited now. But what I stated above is my best help...


so you dont need the drum?? either you have all the part numbers for your exact kit and can duplicate it exactly or not.. which is it?

all i know is i want a kit that matches the ww j-body dynapro front kit. a kit that has the lightweight two-piece rotor design. a kit that my ebrake will work and work WELL with. and a kit that i literally can just read a manual and install it. no custom drilling.. no custom cutting.. no custom jack ish. a bolt on kit that is as easy as doing a brake job. thats what i WANT. will i get it? probably not but i can dream can i?


no matter what you do brad this will not be a buy and bolt on kit unless someone is the middle man, or it is COMPLETELY custom.

Matt, I still think you should research other complete rear kits first and see what mods would be needed, then make a guild to modding or something of the sorts.



Re: Willwood Rear Brakes - Possible? Have been tried?
Monday, August 06, 2012 12:29 PM
Make an offer. The kit must be used on 17" or larger rims.
I will not be responsible for fitment issues on smaller rims.
Kit will include:

EBC 3DG 04 Subaru STI Dimpled And Slotted Rear Rotors
Wilwood Integrated Ebrake Calipers
Wilwood Pads
Custom Mounting Brackets
Misc. Hardware
Ebrake Cables
Spacers

I also have a front kit available.
That is Wilwood STI combo as well.

I can also make the brackets for this kit if anyone want to make a spin off.
I could incoprporate a full backing plate for the guy who was looking to go that route.

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