i support the death penalty, but not as a punisment, but as a protection for everyone else. if theres a chil mosestor, repeat rapist or murderer, he does 20 years, gets out and does it again, then waht were those 20 years in jail for.....nothing, waste of time and money, and it gave people a false sense of security. if you execute that same person, its over, you never have to worry about that person again.

furthermore i dont agree with inmates spenidng 30 years on death row.......in a case, the court should decide if the death penalty will be used.....if so, when giving the verdict, the regular chair that the defendant sits in should be replaced with the electric chair.....jury reads guilty, switch is thrown...reads not guilty.....man is released


You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan

(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)

jackalope wrote:So if the state puts someone to death then are we all murderers?

First, yes. I don't support the state killing people. It *IS* a government of the people, or so we're lead to believe. So please don't kill on my behalf.

So your grandfather was a good man because he saw a man hang, and not because his pappy taught him some morals? Please.

I'm talking about the guy who had his hand around someone's throat and let go because he thought "oh I better not I might get the chair."

And yes, I said I want names.


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mikec2003 wrote: if theres a chil mosestor, repeat rapist or murderer, he does 20 years, gets out and does it again, then waht were those 20 years in jail for.....nothing, waste of time and money, and it gave people a false sense of security. if you execute that same person, its over, you never have to worry about that person again.

Your reason for support is flawed. People who are sentenced to death there were only two options the jury had available to consider... life sentence or death sentence. Not death or 20 years.

mikec2003 wrote:
furthermore i dont agree with inmates spenidng 30 years on death row

None of us do.


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why i think exhile to an inhosipitble place would be a good thing--that way the blood is on nature's hands if we air-drop a serial killer onto the N. Pole icecap.

The terminus for me on the death penalty or extreme punishment is when someone just doesn't get it--if you kill someone once, do your time, and don't do it again, yes, i see that, but after that, you'd think they'd get the idea.

See there are some people you can reform, and some you can't--humans are stupid, remember, for the ones that can't, i think the cue should be taken from nature--exhile from the rest of the herd and let nature have her way with them.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

AGuSTiN wrote:

Rob S wrote:
Plus people in prison have heart attacks, need medication, have surgery. We had to pay for a guy to have a sex change operation. Here something else for you, the only woman on Nevadas death row, her name is also on the list for people who need a kidney, yeah so lets give someone who is a killer a new kidney so they can live. Rather than some law abiding citizen who has a job and four kids. That really makes sense.

First of all, you're confusing two seperate topics. I can't imagine ANYONE in this thread thinking that giving someone in jail a new kidney is a good idea. Further, I think at least MOST people here would think saving the life of a prisoner who's dying naturally is a good idea, either. This is a topic about the death penalty, not the medical care of inmates.

Well unfortunely what you think doesnt change what is. There is a prisoner on Nevadas death row who is awaitng a kidney transplant. She is ahead of the the law abiding citizens of the state who have a job and kids. If we just would execute the bitch it would solve the problem, plus the surgery wouldnt cost me thousands of dollars.

Rob S wrote:
So if the DP doesnt prevent crime, maybe prison doesnt either, lets just get rid of all the laws.

By YOUR logic maybe we should, because they are NOT deterrents. What GAM is saying is undisputed fact. Prison seems like a deterrent to you and me, but really keeps us from committing crimes isn't fear of prison time, it's our morals.

Your the one who said the DP isnt a deterrant. I was saying since its not and prison obviously isnt either, we should do away with all the laws and prisons.

The DP isnt meant to be a deterrant, maybe it doesnt deter crime maybe it does, that doesnt mean we shouldnt use it.

By the way it only has to deter ONE murder and it is a deterrant, correct?

Jbody2nr wrote:
But what if those 100 felons go out a commit their crimes again, killing more people this time, wouldnt you think the life of one innocent should be traded for the lives of more? But now is when you start to get into What if's and what if's dont count.

History shows that the innocence of one really is worth missing the guilt on 100. This is not just some cliche. Unfortunately, I have no means to prove this to you other than recommend reading insane amounts of text on European history.

everybody wrote:.....

Fact is everyone for the death penalty has proven my original statements true... you have nothing but emotion to support your stance. And fact is, raw emotions of this kind are understandable, but are not going to win you this debate.

It is not just emotion. Obviously you didnt Google "Randy Greenawalt", had he been executed after his first murder, we would have saved the lives of at least 5 other people.

He was executed in 1997 and has hasnt broken out of his casket yet to kill anyone, I cant seem to figure out why though.


- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new

Ahh @!#$ messed it up,

First of all, you're confusing two seperate topics. I can't imagine ANYONE in this thread thinking that giving someone in jail a new kidney is a good idea. Further, I think at least MOST people here would think saving the life of a prisoner who's dying naturally is a good idea, either. This is a topic about the death penalty, not the medical care of inmates.


Well unfortunely what you think doesnt change what is. There is a prisoner on Nevadas death row who is awaitng a kidney transplant. She is ahead of the the law abiding citizens of the state who have a job and kids. If we just would execute the bitch it would solve the problem, plus the surgery wouldnt cost me thousands of dollars.

By YOUR logic maybe we should, because they are NOT deterrents. What GAM is saying is undisputed fact. Prison seems like a deterrent to you and me, but really keeps us from committing crimes isn't fear of prison time, it's our morals."

Your the one who said the DP isnt a deterrant. I was saying since its not and prison obviously isnt either, we should do away with all the laws and prisons.

The DP isnt meant to be a deterrant, maybe it doesnt deter crime maybe it does, that doesnt mean we shouldnt use it.

By the way it only has to deter ONE murder and it is a deterrant, correct?

Fact is everyone for the death penalty has proven my original statements true... you have nothing but emotion to support your stance. And fact is, raw emotions of this kind are understandable, but are not going to win you this debate.


It is not just emotion. Obviously you didnt Google "Randy Greenawalt", had he been executed after his first murder, we would have saved the lives of at least 5 other people.

He was executed in 1997 and has hasnt broken out of his casket yet to kill anyone, I cant seem to figure out why though.[/



- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new

agustin i realized that after i hit post......but still faced with life in prison or death, id the guy be killed the day he's found guilty and save the country some money

now id rather there be a surefire way to rehabilitate criminals so theyre no threat, but that can never happen, you can only help those who want to be helped. so sometimes execution is the only way to make sure that everyone else is safe from some of these wackos


You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan

(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)

Rob S wrote:
Well unfortunely what you think doesnt change what is. There is a prisoner on Nevadas death row who is awaitng a kidney transplant. She is ahead of the the law abiding citizens of the state who have a job and kids. If we just would execute the bitch it would solve the problem, plus the surgery wouldnt cost me thousands of dollars.

AGAIN, that's a different topic. Completely seperate from this thread. You're arguing a point when no one here is disagreeing with you. I don't think she should get a kidney, but I also wouldn't execute her. See?

Rob S wrote:
Your the one who said the DP isnt a deterrant. I was saying since its not and prison obviously isnt either, we should do away with all the laws and prisons.

So if it's not a deterrant we should fail to protect ourselves? Again, two seperate issues.

Rob S wrote:
By the way it only has to deter ONE murder and it is a deterrant, correct?

No.

Rob S wrote:
It is not just emotion. Obviously you didnt Google "Randy Greenawalt", had he been executed after his first murder, we would have saved the lives of at least 5 other people.

He was executed in 1997 and has hasnt broken out of his casket yet to kill anyone, I cant seem to figure out why though.[/

And he had been sentences to life without parole, he wouldn't of killed anyone, either.



---

So you want me to tell you the names of someone who was trying to kill someone and suddenly stoped because of what there out come will be? And you say our arguement is flawed ! Wow thats rich, So I get to name someone who stopped cause he would face the death penalty . I don't ever remember saying I was a sycic did I? Anyone else hear me claim to be able to lead the police to would be murderers? I didn't think so.

I understand where you are comeing from AGuSTiN realy I can. Your saying it isn't logical to kill someone who has killed because this makes you no better. For this I respond by saying you have forced me to quote the master of logic Mr.Spock from
Star Trek. " The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or one." You can't argue with that statement. If a group of people are spaired from dying at the hand of a repeat offender or an especialy violent person by putting this person to death then it is acceptable.

In Fredrick Md. approx. 2years ago a man was released from prison after 20 some years for raping little boys almost 30 of them in total. The day he was released he went to a local baseball park where he befriended a little boy. The next day the boys body was found beaten, strangled and he was raped. If this man had gotten the death penalty like the state asked for this would never have happened and this boy would still be alive today. But due to the attitude of certain goodie two shoes people who stuck there nose into business 20 years ago and got the death penalty for this man revoked for a life term and then he got out early for good behaivior, Well I hope they are proud of themselves because of them in there wisdom of not wanting people like him put to death condemed an innocent little boy to be raped and murdered. If this is fine with you
then I hope you never have a little boy who is befriended by a murdering child molesting freek that should have died 20 years prior. But why take the chance? end there life before they get a chance to kill again.


" THE NEEDS OF THE MANY OUT WEIGH THE NEEDS OF THE FEW " truer words have never been spoken. This is not emotion it is logic plane and simple.



Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Jbody2nr wrote:
But what if those 100 felons go out a commit their crimes again, killing more people this time, wouldnt you think the life of one innocent should be traded for the lives of more?

Not going to get into what if's. You've made my point for me. It's a life no matter WHO takes it.

What I had said was that imprisoning a person for life (figure 35 years), w/o the possibility of parole is cheaper than executing a prisoner, and it's laid out in the link... No parole means no parole. I just find it extremely hypocritical to kill someone to say that killing someone is wrong. Where's the moral high-ground? Where do we as a society stand on better terms than our worst members?

The health care issue isn't one you want to start arguing with me... I live in a place where 50 cents of every dollar of taxes I pay goes to taking care of the sick, and every dunce that thinks they are too. The sex change issue, I won't say anything on except that if it's elective surgery, it shouldn't be covered. Here's something that I had thought about: instead of the military giving personel and families free breast augmentations and other plastic surgeries to keep their doctors "practised," use prisoners. They usually have wounds close to what is to be encountered in the field... I don't know of any one that snap-decides to get implants in the middle of a firefight, but then again, I've never seen combat. It's called kill 2 birds with one stone.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

Gam I used real case's not " what if's " . I even provided a logical responce for the
deth penalty to be kept. Sure emotion does figure into it but as a whole socioty has a right to protect itself and if that means these people die to save others lives then so be it.



Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Augustin wrote:protect ourselves

There you just made MY point here. DP is for our PROTECTION even if a criminal had life without the possibility of parole. He could still escape or be pardoned and then do it again. The only surefire way to keep it from happening again is to give them the death sentence.

orrrr

KOTL wrote:why i think exhile to an inhosipitble place would be a good thing--that way the blood is on nature's hands if we air-drop a serial killer onto the N. Pole icecap.

that would be a good alternative.

GAM wrote:I just find it extremely hypocritical to kill someone to say that killing someone is wrong. Where's the moral high-ground? Where do we as a society stand on better terms than our worst members?

Its not killing nor murder. Its EXECUTION. And yes there is a difference.

The moral high-ground is where as we do it for the protection of the people. Its not like its a mass slaughter/murder/homicide whatever for no apparent reason.




Oh and people there is a spell check button


____________________________________________________________________

Madjack wrote:Like I said before, building an engine like ours (2.2 or 2200) is a painstaking chore , since there is so few custom made parts. It's frustrating to me too, but that's what I like about doing this engine, it's the challenge.

2nr your my new hero!


Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

jack: I'm not dipping into individual cases.. I'm not God... okay... okay.. I am... but that's beside not important.

What's the difference between locking someone up forever and killing them? None. They're not part of society, and they're not getting back in. Why go the extra barbaric step?




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

That way it is final and the families of the victims and the vicyims can finaly have some closure. And also that way there is no escape.



Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

^^^We go the extra barbaric step because well.....we're BARBARIANS.....duhhhhh,

no

we do it for a just in case scenario it is MUCH better to be SAFE than sorry.


____________________________________________________________________

Madjack wrote:Like I said before, building an engine like ours (2.2 or 2200) is a painstaking chore , since there is so few custom made parts. It's frustrating to me too, but that's what I like about doing this engine, it's the challenge.

Jack: In the thread I linked to, there is a link to a "victims agains capital punishment" website (I forget the actual name).

There are a lot more people that think that capital punishment is just sanctioned murder anyhow, even those that had a loved one killed.





Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

Thats ok they are intitled to there opinion even if it is the wrong one. Just like you are.
I wont hold it against you that your opinion is wrong either. I'm just nice like that.
I have yet to talk to anyone who after either haveing a family member killed or a son or daughter raped were to say "no don't hurt him" in defence of the attacker. Criminals
should have no rights at all in fact. And depending on the level of the crime you commited your rights should deminish accordingly all the way to loseing your right to live.



Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

^^^Couldnt have said it better myself, except the part about everyone else's opinion is wrong. Thats just @!#$ up


____________________________________________________________________

Madjack wrote:Like I said before, building an engine like ours (2.2 or 2200) is a painstaking chore , since there is so few custom made parts. It's frustrating to me too, but that's what I like about doing this engine, it's the challenge.

It was a ha ha 2nr


Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Oh and one more thing.The reasoning behind my belief in capitol punishment is NOT based on emotion. I've never had anyone close to me murdered or raped or whatever.
My reasoning is purely LOGICAL.


____________________________________________________________________

Madjack wrote:Like I said before, building an engine like ours (2.2 or 2200) is a painstaking chore , since there is so few custom made parts. It's frustrating to me too, but that's what I like about doing this engine, it's the challenge.

Jbody2nr wrote:

Augustin wrote:protect ourselves

There you just made MY point here. DP is for our PROTECTION even if a criminal had life without the possibility of parole. He could still escape or be pardoned and then do it again. The only surefire way to keep it from happening again is to give them the death sentence.

You're right. You're absolutely right. Death is the ONLY sure fire way to protect ourselves. However, jail breaks are the exception, not the rule.

Jbody2nr wrote:
Its not killing nor murder. Its EXECUTION. And yes there is a difference.

Not to me. The death penalty to most of it's supporters is vengeance, death by vengeance is murder.


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Jbody2nr wrote:Oh and one more thing.The reasoning behind my belief in capitol punishment is NOT based on emotion. I've never had anyone close to me murdered or raped or whatever.
My reasoning is purely LOGICAL.

It is?

Death Penalty is more expensive than life in jail (due to additional legal expenses).

Many people on death row have been exhonerated. Governor George Ryan declared a moratorium on execution in Illinois for this reason in January 2000.

The death penalty undermines values that we hold dear.... everyone is equal, and the value of a person's life is so great that it is beyond our ability to measure it.

The death penalty is not a deterrent to `capital' crime.

The execution of a criminal has no true benefit. Since it is not a deterrent and life imprisonment is now less expensive, the only reasons for the death penalty are punishment and vengeance. Neither reason is valid.

The death penalty is not applied evenly. Most studies that criticize the application of the death penalty do so because more persons from minorities are given the sentence than whites.

No government can be above the laws it places upon those under its jurisdiction.

Of course, none of that matters because they might escape from jail. How is that logical?


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OH NO NOT THE POOR MINORITIES DEFENCE !!!! Why are more death row inmates
minorites? Um maybe because they comit more violent crimes . Does this mean they
should be let go because of the color of there skin? Talk about double standard!! Its
ok to fry whitey just dont do it to a brother. Please give me a break!! No I'm not saying you directly AGuSTiN so don't even think it for a minute I know better now ok. But this
crap has got to stop. Watch the news tonight, tell me how many minorites you see
on there commiting violent crimes. Now do the same with white people. ( cause I know where this is going.... Straight to race being an issue ) Evey single time this race crap is brought up its because they know they are fighting a loseing battle when
trying to get the death penality revoked. But throw in race and suddenly every civil rights
group wants to be on T.V. I DON'T CARE WHAT COLOR YOU ARE !!! If you are a murderer you need to fry. Drawn out apeals nope sorry do away with them. You should get 1 apeal and if your found guily again, nighty night.

The reason the death penalty exists is to protect people from these monsters ever doing harm again. let me re-quote please.......
" THE NEEDS OF THE MANY OUT WEIGH THE NEEDS OF THE FEW "
Or how about................
" DON'T DO THE CRIME IF YOU CAN'T DO THE TIME "

And besides these are not people we are talking about, they are murderous monsters
and they deserve death followed by an eternity of burning in hell.



Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

jackalope wrote:OH NO NOT THE POOR MINORITIES DEFENCE !!!! Why are more death row inmates
minorites? Um maybe because they comit more violent crimes . Does this mean they
should be let go because of the color of there skin? Talk about double standard!! Its
ok to fry whitey just dont do it to a brother. Please give me a break!! No I'm not saying you directly AGuSTiN so don't even think it for a minute I know better now ok. But this
crap has got to stop. Watch the news tonight, tell me how many minorites you see
on there commiting violent crimes. Now do the same with white people. ( cause I know where this is going.... Straight to race being an issue ) Evey single time this race crap is brought up its because they know they are fighting a loseing battle when
trying to get the death penality revoked. But throw in race and suddenly every civil rights
group wants to be on T.V. I DON'T CARE WHAT COLOR YOU ARE !!! If you are a murderer you need to fry. Drawn out apeals nope sorry do away with them. You should get 1 apeal and if your found guily again, nighty night.

The reason the death penalty exists is to protect people from these monsters ever doing harm again. let me re-quote please.......
" THE NEEDS OF THE MANY OUT WEIGH THE NEEDS OF THE FEW "
Or how about................
" DON'T DO THE CRIME IF YOU CAN'T DO THE TIME "

And besides these are not people we are talking about, they are murderous monsters
and they deserve death followed by an eternity of burning in hell.

Wow, did you really just ignore the rest of my points, just to focus on the one point in which you clearly don't understand? The problem isn't the raw numbers, but the ratio. Federal prosecuters are TWICE as likely to seek the death penalty on cases where a minority is on trial.

Research the Justice Department reports of 2000 on the death penalty. For example, in Illinois where the Governor abolished the death penalty, 67% of death row inmates were minority while only 35% of the entire prison population wasn't white. This is a nation wide problem, however.


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