OHV notec wrote:Phlatcav wrote:I NEED NEW KEEPERS, however i do not know what to look for so can one of you help me find the correct set? Im going to have to take the head back to the shop and have them lower the spring seat inorder to keep a good spring rate. Im fine with that as i trust the shop greatly.
so what keepers will i need that will fit the oem sized valve but JBP retainers?
LOL...that's what I've been saying 
Also like I said earlier, your best bet on keepers is the Manley set I listed earlier...part# 13171 T-8. It's 8 pairs of 7mm radius-grooved stem, 10* locks with a decreased install height...just what you're looking for.
wait, the first part number you gave me was MAN-13171-8
the second is MAN-13171 T-8
summit has both part numbers but with no description at all, and about a 50$ diff between the two! so what part number is it
oops, now i see. one set is titanium and the other is steal.
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oops, now i see. one set is titanium and the other is steal.
Lol. Yeah, compared to the price of titanium, the other one is a steal.
Well, I contacted my friend at the machine shop yesterday. I'll be dropping off a cylinder head or two next week. I think I'll raid an old 305 cylinder head for some intake valves since I'm just plain cheap.
I can't believe I may actually rebuild the 2.2 before I build and install my 302 in the S10.
-->Slow
OHV notec wrote:
volumeking: Yeah that's most definately an s10 engine. You're lucky that you get to do that kind of stuff in hs auto. In my class, we'd spend the whole period doing oil and brake pad changes on the instructor's friends' cars...
lol well i am in high school, but they call it high school in a college setting..i have my classes at a local tech college and its more laid back with less people, easier rules and the careers classes (in this case autos) is a little more in depth..last quater we were doing the oil changes and brake pads. but now we're going more into the car..its a really fun class and i love it..
and for my senior project, i'm thinking of building my spare 2200, since its a college they have everything i need to get my block bored and all the machine work needed and i can get it for free
Volumeking333 wrote:OHV notec wrote:
volumeking: Yeah that's most definately an s10 engine. You're lucky that you get to do that kind of stuff in hs auto. In my class, we'd spend the whole period doing oil and brake pad changes on the instructor's friends' cars...
lol well i am in high school, but they call it high school in a college setting..i have my classes at a local tech college and its more laid back with less people, easier rules and the careers classes (in this case autos) is a little more in depth..last quater we were doing the oil changes and brake pads. but now we're going more into the car..its a really fun class and i love it..
and for my senior project, i'm thinking of building my spare 2200, since its a college they have everything i need to get my block bored and all the machine work needed and i can get it for free
Thats a sweet hook up man .......... I remember high school auto class..... didn't have a car ....... I hated that fact.......
I just get a shop to work in now with my own hoist to work on for free..Woot.... but your arrangement sounds much better........
Lee
JDM Civic Hatch
Status: Parting Out Turbo Kit....
14.224 @ 102.01MPH @ 5.5psi.... 2.3 60'
Next: Civic JDM B16a2 w/GSR LSD Turbo - Goal 300whp 1400lbs...
this thread is full of very useful information, I hope it gets saved in the archives. (and perhaps some info used in the build guide!)
yeah i think it would be more usefuly in a guide w/o the off topicness....sorry.... but yeah hopefully Scarab puts most of this info in that guide
Don't worry guys, i've already copied and pasted all of the good stuff into a word file that i saved... Gotcha covered!
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
Alright all, I have a few questions that I couldn't find answers to. And I figured I'd just keep this post going instead of unnecessarily creating another
1) What are the exact differences between the 2.2L & 2200 pistons? I know the 2200 has a smaller dish, but something about it looks different in the picture on ny-jbodies...taller? ring heights? I also saw that Dominik wrote in one thread that 98+ pistons in a 97- engine would yield something like a 13:1 CR? Doesn't the 2.2L actually have larger combustion chambers than the 2200?
2) What is the composite of an LN2 crank like in comparison to an ECO crank? We've seen stock ECO cranks take 400+ whp/wtq now. How far would you guys feel safe pushing your OHV cranks? What kind of RPM do you think it could survive? (this one is just for fun
)
3) Anyone know the length & diameter of the stock 2200 pushrods?
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
I've rarely seen a crank fail in ANY street engine unless it was caused by oil contamination or a wiped/spun bearing. As long as the crank is balanced and within specs I don't think I'd really be all that nervous about it until you're making enough power where you couldn't even drive the thing on the street.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
Don't forget that 4cyl engines typically have a main between each rod throw, as opposed to V6/8s that have two rod throws between each main. Thats allot of support for a crank!
The 2.2 crank has a shorter throw than many V8 cranks which reduces torsional loading. It also has rolled fillets for keeping microscopic cracks from forming. Cryo-treat that baby, balance 'er up, and never look back.
-->Slow
Okay, well this engine will see max 400hp, so I guess it will just be balance it and that's it (maybe cryo, we'll see, another $150). But I'm seriously looking into building a drag engine after this, and I'm just a little skeptical on how much the stocker can take with just peen/cryo/nitride/polish...but spending $2500 for a forged unit is, well, kinda hard to take in
How about #'s 1&3? anyone have a 2200 laying around for measurement?
Thanks guys
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
Ey fellas, I desided to go back to work on the springs, locks, and retainers. I want stock replacement parts (as in exact specs as stock) where can i find these parts at?
And is anyone interested in my JBP springs, locks, and retainers?
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Okay, well this engine will see max 400hp,
At what rpm? 400 hp at 5252 rpm is 400 ft-lbs. That's a bit of a stretch. But 400 hp at 9500 rpm is only 221 ft-lbs, a much more reasonable number. Torque is the real deciding factor, so figure hp * 5252 / desired operating rpm to develop hp.
desired at requires
hp rpm this torque
--------------------------------------------
400 500 4201.6
1000 2100.8
2000 1050.4
3000 700.26
4000 525.2
5000 420.16
6000 350.13
7000 300.11
8000 262.6
9000 233.42
10000 210.08
Does this help you get a better "feel" for what's needed?
-->Slow
Also forgot to mention the 2.0L crankshaft will be somewhat more resistant to breaking due to torque related damage. If you're not committed to a piston or rod yet it may be possible to find a combination of 2.0 crank, longer rod, and 2.2 piston which will make for a nice setup. The short stroke will make life a little easier at higher rpm, and if you're using forced induction you can always up the boost to make up for the loss in displacement.
-->Slow
That would make for a much higher revving engine, but there are a couple of thing that could be a problem.
First would be the timing notches, are they in the same position?
The timing notches should be the same on the '97 & older 2.2's, but in '98 + 2200's, the timing notches were moved. This could be remedied, by having the notches welded up and the new notches machined in to the timing disc. Just make sure the shop the does this work is very accurate.
Secondly, the PCM will limit the rpms to only 6000rpm, which as of right now, can only be fixed bey a stand alone PCM.
Get past these problems and you'd have a hell of a Buzz Bomb! The reduction of stroke from 3.46" to 3.15" is a significant reduction in torsional stress, with a major increase in rpm capabilities.
MadJack wrote:That would make for a much higher revving engine, but there are a couple of thing that could be a problem.
First would be the timing notches, are they in the same position?
The timing notches should be the same on the '97 & older 2.2's, but in '98 + 2200's, the timing notches were moved. This could be remedied, by having the notches welded up and the new notches machined in to the timing disc. Just make sure the shop the does this work is very accurate.
Secondly, the PCM will limit the rpms to only 6000rpm, which as of right now, can only be fixed bey a stand alone PCM.
Get past these problems and you'd have a hell of a Buzz Bomb! The reduction of stroke from 3.46" to 3.15" is a significant reduction in torsional stress, with a major increase in rpm capabilities.
I'm not worried at all about getting my 2200 to take 7500 RPMs under full boost load. With lightened, balanced, knife-edged crank, ARP everything, full roller valvetrain, and lots of tuning with the MegaSquirt.
I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.
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First would be the timing notches, are they in the same position?
Good point. And silly me for thinking OHVNotec ai working on a 97 style engine.
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This could be remedied, by having the notches welded up and the new notches machined in to the timing disc. Just make sure the shop the does this work is very accurate.
I built a disc to use in testing DIS programming. It was approximately 3" OD dia and I fitted it to a hub from an old 8" pc cooling fan. The ring ID was approximately 1/4" less. A similar ring could be machined to fit on the OD of an LN2 crank with the OD of the notched ring turned down and a little careful measurement could allow the timing to be adjusted quite well before the disc was secured. I have the details for notch depth and timing for the pre 98 crank available to anyone interested. Also, the pre 98 PCM will be calibrated with the correct timing offset for the early style crank.
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Secondly, the PCM will limit the rpms to only 6000rpm, which as of right now, can only be fixed bey a stand alone PCM.
6K??? Yikes! Maybe switch to GM OBDI? Much cheaper than standalone and just as programmable. You could use a pre OBDII S10 PCM, which is even capable of controlling an electronic transmission. I have a fair amount of calibration info for one of these pcms.
Hmmm. 400 hp by 6k rpm = a torque curve to make a big block scared.
--> Slow
I wouldn't say big block, just a well built stroked small block!
That 6k rpm limit is the big factor reducing the performance of the ohv. Thats why I always tell everyone not to go too extreme on their parts selection, but work on the low to mid range power. mannual trannys should peak out at about 5600-5800 rpm, to shift by the redline, autos about 5400-5600, since the shift points are harder to tune for .
Hey guys, back on the valve spring/keeper/retainers subject for a sec. Will my stock ones be ok for up to 250hp? i know adler had his 2200 over 250hp with stock valvetrain other than his valves.
I mean, what real advantage will I have with my current JBP parts? Im not boosting so I wont have to worry about the intake valves being forced open.
