Phlat and PJ have has the gayest problems through built heads.....I'm getting scared to do anything now haha.

I have to list out a combo that will actually work since it seems some companies are throwing things together.


N2O + Bolt-ons = 220Hp/250Tq

Coming Soon:HpTunersPro, EagleConnectingRods, WiescoPistons, 13sec2200

Phlat,
when mixing and matching parts, it's essential to remember that surprises come up. Trial fitting parts is very important. If you've already spent a bunch of money on the valvetrain then why would you risk damaging it over a few dollars more? Buying the correct parts is like buying an insurance policy... if you can spend another $150-$200 to guarantee the top end stays together, would you do it?

The rocker has to deal with extremely large amounts of heat and pressure. It's probably the most highly stressed part in a built engine. Crane rockers are good for two reasons, design experience and tons and tons of customer feedback. If Crane felt they could make the rocker tip support area smaller thus saving themselves some production costs and keeping the price lower, don't you think they would have done it?

Aluminum fatigues. It's like the metal gets tired and just breaks. As the rocker pushes down on the valve, it also pushes the valve toward the rocker stud. The guide keeps the valve straight by pushing back, basically it pushes the tip of the rocker toward the exhaust side of the head. If you remove material from this area you're making it harder for the rocker to keep the roller tip from breaking out.

If PJ had the same problem then it means the combination of parts he and you are using won't work together. Notec's got a great suggestion and it matches what I thought should be changed. I'd look into it if I were you.

Notec BTW, BTDT on skipping physics (and calculus) studying for car projects.

-->Slow

SlowoleJ's correct, the new locks is your best bet. Just remove any shims to compensate for the difference in installed hight.
Do you know how to calculate for the difference in seat pressure?
I don't know about Comp Cams, but Crane reccomends between 120-145lbs of seat pressure for hydraulic roller lifters, to get the full potential out of your cam. If the seat pressure fall with in this range and you don't exceed the max lift for the spring(including the difference in installed hight), you'll be fine. Do check for valve lock/retainer and seal interference though, you dont want to crush the seal.

looks like im gonna go with the lash caps. However how can i find out what lenght pushrods im gonna need?

and am i better off going with stock replacement springs, locks, and retainers if im just goning to hit around 200 to 250?

HEY GANG! its the rocker not the locks and retainers. ill explain more when i have time.

and a heads up, Dave Maxwell no longer works at Crane

Okay, from the pics you showed, and the info on JBP's site...those locks would fix your problem (cheaper and easier, with more power, and possibly more reliable than new lash caps and pushrods). So, unless you have somehow found an install error (which is VERY unlikely seeing as PJ had the same problem)....I don't know, just hurry up and 'find time'
If you ever need to determine required pushrod length, you can buy an adjustable 'pushrod' to fit (always a good idea to take measurements at all locations and take an average).

slowolej: I think everyone's btdt...I've personally skipped classes even because of this oddly addicting car. The final exam was a bust, but everyone else blew it too, so grading on a curve will save me (who really needs to know relative velocities between two spaceships traveling near the speed of light anyway, not to mention schrodinger electron waveforms during e- transmission?). I have a networks final tomorrow morning that I should be studying for right now, and I really need a good grade on this one (and I have no clue on anything we've covered in the last two months)...



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.

ok i was wrong about the rockers, they are correct. my next step is to...

take one assembly apart and find out what is under the shimmed spings (im hoping a spring seat) but i doubt it. i belive the only thing under the spring is the shim . so, will i need to take the head back to the shop and have them machine the spring seats down so that i can use new keepers?

Ok here is the final deal im promis.

I NEED NEW KEEPERS, however i do not know what to look for so can one of you help me find the correct set? Im going to have to take the head back to the shop and have them lower the spring seat inorder to keep a good spring rate. Im fine with that as i trust the shop greatly.

so what keepers will i need that will fit the oem sized valve but JBP retainers?

sorry to ramble on fellas

Honestly man, the new locks will change the installed height a MAX of .100". With those springs at 190lb/in, you will increase the spring rate a MAX of 19lb...next to nothing (the tolerance for stock springs is almost that much ). Apparently the 2200 valvetrain specs are all listed on ny-jbodies (but not the 2.2L ). It looks like the FACTORY springs calculate to about 250 lbs/in...DOES THIS MAKE SENSE TO ANYONE? why would JBP sell lower rate springs? I'd venture to say that with those rockers and springs, you may be risking valve float up top. If I were you, I'd call JBP and make sure that's a typo on their web page. (I may be having the Mantapart springs tested here to make sure they're not screwy too...)



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.

Phlatcav wrote:I NEED NEW KEEPERS, however i do not know what to look for so can one of you help me find the correct set? Im going to have to take the head back to the shop and have them lower the spring seat inorder to keep a good spring rate. Im fine with that as i trust the shop greatly.

so what keepers will i need that will fit the oem sized valve but JBP retainers?

LOL...that's what I've been saying
Also like I said earlier, your best bet on keepers is the Manley set I listed earlier...part# 13171 T-8. It's 8 pairs of 7mm radius-grooved stem, 10* locks with a decreased install height...just what you're looking for.



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.

cool deal man.

yea the spring rate is a bit odd...

well here is a bit of info, the spring rate is abour 250 at 2" if that makes any sense to ya.

ok, so stock is

Valve Springs Load - Closed...........................81.2-72.8 lb @ 1.600 in
Valve Springs Load - Open..............................215-201 lb @ 1.175 in

is that the right info?

well guys this is off topic of what everyone else is, but at school today we went into the engine lab (i'm in high school and have engine building basics in my Autos class) and to my surprise..these are the motors we are tearing apart and building. Crate 2200 from GM
your prolly like big deal, but look at these pictures i took on my cell phone..



the exhaust mani, Intake mani and the oil filler tube are all different than the stock 2200 in our cars. the intake mani and oil filler really caught my eye, i'm going to try to get part numbers off these motors and see if we can get these

p.s. sorry for the crappy crappy pictures, they are from a cell phone

good ol s10 motor


OK the rate on the JBP springs are 280lb installed!

so where can we go from here

ohh i forgot about the s10...so thats the s10 motor???

anyone know if that oil filler tube would be an alternative to modify one for a turbo with a log mani?

i dount it as it will get in the way of a downpipe. a modded one needs to move to the right of the motor twards the tranny

That's with the valves closed? Holy hell. Either they have a typo on the website, or those are VERY long springs. You want to know what kind of pressure that is? That's almost 40% more than what your stock springs put down with the valve all the way open. I can't tell you what kind of pressure will be applied at stock .425" lift without free length, and installed height. But I can tell you that I wouldn't be surprised if the people having lifter problems were using these srings...For instance, the hi-po LS1 lifters I'm looking to use for the next build are only 112lbs installed...

volumeking: Yeah that's most definately an s10 engine. You're lucky that you get to do that kind of stuff in hs auto. In my class, we'd spend the whole period doing oil and brake pad changes on the instructor's friends' cars...



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.

Glad to hear you're going with the locks(keepers). Make sure you (and/or the shop) test fits everything and measures the installed hight before and after they cut the seats. Measure twice, cut once!(then verify that)

As far as the spring rate, I think you mean 280 lbs / in.. Installed rate like that would collapse the lifter plunger! All's well

i called them and was told that number on the JBP springs. I got the stock spring rates from the NYj's website. i plan on buying stronger lifters from JBP.

I would not think that they would sell a spring that would be high do you?

damn, did not see ya post jack

so looks like the rates are ok just need the shop to do the rest after i get the keepers yay

and look what just arrived

Yeah, 280 lb/in would make more sense. But that is a characteristic...installed/uninstalled...doesn't matter.
I hope they fix their website That sounds like a really good rate for what you need as well.
Do you know what the free length is? If not, make sure to measure them when you take the head apart, that way we can figure out the installed and full-lift pressures. It will also give us an idea of what kind of lift they can handle.
Oh yeah, we need to make sure Scarab knows he needs those retainers if he buys PJ's engine

Where'd you get those pulleys? I have a couple different sets, but they don't look that slick



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.

Is that the stock sized lightened pulley or the under drive pulley?

I got the under drive pully from ASP, it really did pretty decent on the top end power. After I get the new Torque Converter, I'm looking at getting the crank scraper / windage tray, for a little more top end.

they are both stock sized rsm pulleys, crank and alt. I have an underdrive on my installed motor and the gain was sweet! but the charging sucked!

im hoping ill keep or add to the gain with the rsm set