Quest for the 12's.....All-Motor. - Page 21 - Photos & Media Forum

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Re: Quest for the 12's.....All-Motor.
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 9:08 PM
well wtf NEWT? wheres the updates? wheres the dyno sheets? wheres the damn 12 second na times?!!

LOL




Re: Quest for the 12's.....All-Motor.
Thursday, September 29, 2011 12:09 AM
-Z Yaaaa- wrote:

well wtf NEWT? wheres the updates? wheres the dyno sheets? wheres the damn 12 second na times?!!

LOL


Yeah wth



Re: Quest for the 12's.....All-Motor.
Thursday, September 29, 2011 3:04 AM
Needs dyno time and tuning... I probably want to see this car hit the 12's as bad as Newt does!




Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
Re: Quest for the 12's.....All-Motor.
Thursday, September 29, 2011 8:36 AM
Looks like someone has been doing way to much work and not enough forum updates at work !





Re: Quest for the 12's.....All-Motor.
Thursday, September 29, 2011 9:54 AM
Sorry guys, I should of updated this..lol

Went to the track last weekend and ran a 13.3@100 with a 1.85 60'....traction wasn't nearly as good as it was before at the other track when I was ripping off low 1.7'.

Also had like 3/4 of a tank of gas and didn't bother taking out my passanger seat.

So, thats probably it for this year guys, I may try and get out one more time, but I wouldn't expect any 12's this year....I've come to realization it just doesn't have enought power.....the BEST and I mean BEST I could hope for the way it sits is a 13.1 or so...cool crisp day, tail wind, sunny, hot track, lots of VHT..lol

That being said, I am in talks with a local guy about getting this car some dyno time, he has mostly tuned Cobalts...but he figures he can help me out.

Also looking into running the car on meth afterall, not much info out there about all-motor meth set-ups..so we will see what I come up with.

It will eventually run 12's boys...don't you worry.





Re: Quest for the 12's.....All-Motor.
Thursday, September 29, 2011 10:02 AM
omg you switch to straight meth and thats all she'll need to run 12's.. hell it'll pry run MID 12s on that @!#$!

good call man, thats what i wanna run in my beast na setup one day!



Re: Quest for the 12's.....All-Motor.
Thursday, September 29, 2011 10:08 AM
Well just meth injection, either 100% or a 90/10 mix with water.

At 10% meth to fuel ratio, bumps octane up to the 115-120 range apparently.

Got an email into AIS about their N/A kit, referances TPS, but it would be nice to have it referance RPM so the ratio of meth added vs. fuel added stays the same.




Re: Quest for the 12's.....All-Motor.
Thursday, September 29, 2011 10:32 AM
any plans in the future for a set of custom ground cams or IM....ITB's maybe?



Re: Quest for the 12's.....All-Motor.
Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:11 AM
Cams more than likely, IM less likely, ITB's not likely....lol

Don't wanna put a ton of money into it anymore, just wanna run a 12 and then will probably move on to another project...which will probably be a L33 powered S13 Silvia road course monster.

Won't be selling the Sunfire tho, probably keep it for when the drag racing bug bites me again, or once the LD9 guys catch up hahaha jk







Re: Quest for the 12's.....All-Motor.
Thursday, September 29, 2011 2:07 PM
newt wrote:

Well just meth injection, either 100% or a 90/10 mix with water.

At 10% meth to fuel ratio, bumps octane up to the 115-120 range apparently.

Got an email into AIS about their N/A kit, referances TPS, but it would be nice to have it referance RPM so the ratio of meth added vs. fuel added stays the same.


Why on earth would you do that? What's the purpose of bumping up octane if you're not even optimally tuned now? You need to prioritize getting yourself on the dyno and getting your ignition timing optimized as much as possible before even considering anything like that. Really, I don't even see what the benefit of meth injection on a build as comparably mild as your car would be. Optimum power comes from getting peak cylinder pressure at 10-16 degrees after top dead center. So while increasing your octane rating may allow you to advance ignition timing more it doesn't guarantee that advance will net any more actual power. Smart money is focusing on getting a set of cams more customized to your engine, getting dyno-tuned on a load-bearing dyno, THEN maybe looking for the other little cheap tricks to go that extra tenth of a percent.

Trust me, if there's one thing I learned modding my old car it's that the $150 you spend on something RIGHT NOW to get a tiny benefit would generally have been much better spent saved for something that costs more but would provide you a much bigger benefit. For me, I should have been ignoring the stock turbo setup and going big turbo. For you, it's ignoring band aids like meth injection and getting cams with opening/closing events that are matched to your bottom end and getting tuned.




Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
Re: Quest for the 12's.....All-Motor.
Thursday, September 29, 2011 2:36 PM
i wouldn't run straight meth. it is so hard on the internals of your engine. but if you want to go ahead i would love to see the result(good or bad) but hopefully good.

Re: Quest for the 12's.....All-Motor.
Thursday, September 29, 2011 2:39 PM
100% meth fuel would be sweet. You really need to get on the dyno. I think you will still be able to run MBT timing even with 11.5:1 compression without meth.


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
Re: Quest for the 12's.....All-Motor.
Thursday, September 29, 2011 3:39 PM
I'll say what Jay said in fewer words... stop worrying about the peas and carrots and focus on the meat and potatoes.

custom cams should be your #1 priority right now since your engine is a bastard.
worry about meth or higher octane when you start seeing knock.


you're running the 'stage 2' comp cams right? this is even more evidence that you need a cam profile better matched to what you have.. it will better utilize the stroke, headflow, and header you have. even stage 3s would be a compromise in a serious way... the cams are your bottleneck right now.







Re: Quest for the 12's.....All-Motor.
Friday, September 30, 2011 3:41 AM
I tend to agree w/ PJ on the cams. This is, of course, friendly discussion not criticism on choices. When i did the LE5 hybrid in the cav last year, I did as much reading as possible on "stroker" builds and relatively higher compression, and what it means for cam selection. The general concensus is that more stroke and higher compression needs "more cam". It's a very general statement, but it's backed up by the fact that the LE5 has one of the most aggressive stock cam specs of all ecotecs, in fact they are more similar to a "comp stage 1" grind than a stock L61 spec. It's also backed up on another front when you look at that ecotecfiero guy's experience; he ran stock L61 cams on an LE61. His description of performance was great torque down low, dead as dog@!#$ up top. That's why if i'm asked about cam selection for the LE61, i recommend comp stage 1 for the minimum, stock LE5-like performance. Hence, stage 2's are really stage 1's, and stage 3's are really stage 2's. Hmmmm, so GMR cams are really stage 3's.

That said, no off-the-shelf grind is really optimized for any specific build (duh!). Hell, short of taking the car to a race team that's experienced with the platform, or has some star engineers, I wouldn't have a clue how to design "the best" cam for your build, or mine, or anyone else's. That's not to say that the stage 3 grind, or even the GMR cams wouldn't yield a moderate increase over what you have now.

The other thing i was thinking about for my own build was the thinner head gasket for an extra half-point of c/r. Bigger cams make higher compression more ameable to pump gas. I was able to run 11.1:1 on 89 octane with a stage 1 intake cam (blower grind), so I think the 11.5:1 would work fine on pump with stage 3's. The extra half point on your build should be a measureable increase in power across the board, no?



Re: Quest for the 12's.....All-Motor.
Friday, September 30, 2011 3:58 AM
what he said^^, more cam, then meth.



Re: Quest for the 12's.....All-Motor.
Friday, September 30, 2011 10:29 AM
definately bigger cams, also have you talked with aaron at ttr about his new intake mani?

i know the le5 works great but i gotta believe you'll get great results with new cams and a sheet metal intake mani with internal velocity stacks. just some food for thought. that together should be about a grand plus some badass dyno and tune time should get you 12's no problem.



Re: Quest for the 12's.....All-Motor.
Friday, September 30, 2011 3:19 PM
^^^ that intake isnt tuned for his motor.



Re: Quest for the 12's.....All-Motor.
Friday, September 30, 2011 4:02 PM
blucavvy wrote:

definately bigger cams, also have you talked with aaron at ttr about his new intake mani?

i know the le5 works great but i gotta believe you'll get great results with new cams and a sheet metal intake mani with internal velocity stacks. just some food for thought. that together should be about a grand plus some badass dyno and tune time should get you 12's no problem.


Or make your own manifold... Granted it wont be ITB's but what about 4 runners up to the TB, then to one big velocity stack on the front of the car?



Re: Quest for the 12's.....All-Motor.
Friday, September 30, 2011 4:10 PM
BuiltNBoosted wrote:

blucavvy wrote:

definately bigger cams, also have you talked with aaron at ttr about his new intake mani?

i know the le5 works great but i gotta believe you'll get great results with new cams and a sheet metal intake mani with internal velocity stacks. just some food for thought. that together should be about a grand plus some badass dyno and tune time should get you 12's no problem.


Or make your own manifold... Granted it wont be ITB's but what about 4 runners up to the TB, then to one big velocity stack on the front of the car?


this works



Re: Quest for the 12's.....All-Motor.
Friday, September 30, 2011 5:50 PM
surge tank style intake is great for boost, but crap for n/a (ala TTR)


ITBs or leave it stock... stock is tuned port, which is the best way to go for n/a other than a carefully designed ITB system.






Re: Quest for the 12's.....All-Motor.
Friday, September 30, 2011 5:57 PM
Though better runner lengths would be nice, It just gets terrible hard to package the length of runner you really need.


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer

Re: Quest for the 12's.....All-Motor.
Friday, September 30, 2011 6:06 PM
Leafy (Club Jeffie FEA man) wrote:

Though better runner lengths would be nice, It just gets terrible hard to package the length of runner you really need.
That's what she said....Hardy har har



Re: Quest for the 12's.....All-Motor.
Friday, September 30, 2011 7:52 PM
And if I remember correctly, the runner length for where your power band would be at would put the ITB's way past the hood. It'd be great to have but I understand why you wouldn't want the headache.



Re: Quest for the 12's.....All-Motor.
Friday, September 30, 2011 10:16 PM
Well, that's where packaging the ITB's requires some creativity. Air horns are still part of the runner length, so if you had some long, curved stacks that wrapped up and over the top of the valve cover you may be able to achiever the length you'd need. You'd just need to be careful to keep a nice gradual curve to them so as not to interrupt flow too badly. Wouldn't look as cool as what you're used to seeing and I'm not sure if the overall power increase would really be worth the money but if you really want to max it out I'm sure it could be done.




Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
Re: Quest for the 12's.....All-Motor.
Saturday, October 01, 2011 7:09 AM
or you could just remove and or relocate the upper rad support since its a race car and call it a day.



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