see I was told that if the O2 sensor isnt heated it may take several minuites to go to closed loop, If the cts is whacked yer not goin to get there any way..
On the heated ones , they should go into closed loop alot sooner , but I dont know the time frame. I never heard of the 500 mile thing. Doesnt mean there isnt truth in it.
You need to get all yer sensors workin good before you expect to achieve closed loop fuel. If you r cts is reading unusually high consistantly all the time you probably have an open in the wire. Assuming you changed the sensor already. Are you using the air flow sensor for the 3.4?
01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e
joe malechowski wrote:see I was told that if the O2 sensor isnt heated it may take several minuites to go to closed loop, If the cts is whacked yer not goin to get there any way..
On the heated ones , they should go into closed loop alot sooner , but I dont know the time frame. I never heard of the 500 mile thing. Doesnt mean there isnt truth in it.
You need to get all yer sensors workin good before you expect to achieve closed loop fuel. If you r cts is reading unusually high consistantly all the time you probably have an open in the wire. Assuming you changed the sensor already. Are you using the air flow sensor for the 3.4?
A car with a heated O2 sensor can actually go into closed loop within a couple of minutes after the engine has completely cooled down. I'm sure that probably is dependant on the weather too.
No, I dont run an airflow sensor. OBD-I is a speed density system. When I get the MS-II and switch to that, It will also be set up as speed density. As far as the CTS. I just discovered this last week. I dont normally drive the car that much. So maintenance is on hold on that in a way. I keep so much of my paychecks to go into a special account, and that's my 'play money'. I'm also moving here in September, so that's incurring a slight additional expense too. So it'll probably set me back.
In addition though, I also have no way to monitor any of the sensors (no functional gauges) So, that' will be a nice chunk of change being dropped at Summit.
Guys, You ready for this.
I fixed the gas guage. Didnt cost me a cent.
What I did was I used the cav pcm, connected the powers, grounds, serial data, and sending unit wires. removed all other wires from the plugs. Turned on the key, and it works. I have a half tank.....
I dont know where Im going to mount the cav pcm, maybe in the stock location. Thats probably the best place since the gam one is under the dash. I just have to lengthen the wires, mount it and Im done.
I dont know what the scanner is going to see yet, but the engine light isnt on. So it looks like its all good.
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do you mean you used the stock cavy BCM?
What are you talking about the BCM for? That has nothing to do with the fuel guage. PCM is what i was talking about.
My response to the off the wall question is yes the cav bcm is in the car.
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Joe. The check engine light is connected via a certain wire off the PCM. I'd leave that one connected to the GA PCM. That way it can still show the light if it finds a problem. Unless they changed that in 00 as well.
yeah I know about the mil control wire. The gam uses it too. Its amazing that the mil control isnt in the serial data.
01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e
I just realized a problem tonight. A few days ago I noticed the amount of miles that I have put on seems high. So I drove it around and watched the odometer. Everything looked good. Well I was doing some other stuff a little while ago and started the car. the miles went up 16 more from key on, to start. I tried it a couple of times after that and everytime I started it the miles went up about 16 more. I didnt move the car and I added about 80 miles on it. I gotta find out what is causing this, I cant leave it that way. This problem actually must of been there all along, its not related to the cav pcm that I put in. The cav pcm is causing other problems. Every couple of starts the theft and service (wrench)light comes on. If I get into the scanner the engine data Is going haywire. The rpm's goes from 0 to the actual reading, and all of the other sensor readings jumps around like mad. I cant get into the codes that are turning on the lights, all I can see is no codes present.
I thought you guys that are planning on usinig the cav pcm for the guages need to know this. I have yet to figure out what Im going to do now. Ill keep you posted.
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The cav pcm is causing the mileage thing. Its unhooked for now. Thats the least of my problems. The cooling fans dont work all the time, when they do work the high speed signal from the pcm flickers and wont stay on. I had the A/C on yesterday and the Pressure switch must not be working either, after running the A/C for 10 min the pop off valve on the back of the compressor opened and freon started spewing out.
I pulled the PCM and Its going in the trash. I have another coming tomorrow, but now I have to go back to the dealer to have that one flashed. They dont like to see me coming.
I hooked up the scanner with the cav pcm hooked up , the live data was screwy. all of the readings went from max to min. I dont think thats going to be a problem. However the theft and service light come on if I power the cav pcm the same time as every thing else. Im going to try to pull a wire off of the trans that has power or ground in R D 3 2 and 1st gear. this should fix the dash lights prob and the mileage prob. The only catch is the gas guage wont read in park or neutral. It will work till I can come up with a better solution.
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hey joe what year of cav pcm are you using?
01, its the original one out of the car.
I got the new PCM in tonight, The low speed fan comes on ok, but I still cant figure out the High speed fan. It never comes on. If I connect the high speed, wire from the pcm to the low speed I get high but it turns on the engine light. If I get into the PCM I can turn it on witth the scanner.
Does any one know when This thing is supposed to turn on. Is it an A/C thing or an engine temp thing.
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have u tryed this way joe use the 00+ grand am pcm and use your stock cav bcm because I have been studying the pcm and bcm pin out from both cars and they have all the same pin outs and cirucit numbers and you want me to post up the pcm and bcm from both cars that I got from the dealer I will.
high speed is with A/C and temp. mine's an '02 Z24 though. don't know if that makes a difference.
Desert Tuners
“When you come across a big kettle of crazy, it’s best not to stir it.”
T R, no thanks on the bcm diagrams. I already have them and looked down that road. They arent the same. The only thing that is similar is the amount of pins per plug. I dont know where you got your diagrams but I wouldnt trust them. Mine are from Mitchell's, I have used them several times at work and through the whole swap and they are right on. Any way I dont believe the BCM has anything to do with the gas guage any way since it goes from the tank unit to the PCM. By the way for further reference the 01 gam GT and the 01 cav have the same part # for the tank module which includes the pump and the fuel guage sender.
01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e
Thats nice. You do realize they are different now dont you. Look at the Plugs C1, C2, and C3. Match em up with the cav. Besides the fact that they are different colors, they are also not even close. If the plug colors are different then they wont plug in. OK for example C1 is Purple, pin A1 and A2 are not used on the cav, and they are used on the gam C1.
you missed pin 69 on the gam pcm which is the fuel level in. Thats where the tank unit goes and then to pin 35 which is the sense ground.
The cav/ sunfire pcm have different plug colors, which means they are useless plugged in, just like the BCM's.
You might have a hair line chance that you could switch the BCM plug ends, move around the wires to get it to work, Im not trying it. You do it and maybe Ill think about it.
This is like the swap advice you gave on the 05 cluster in a pre 00 cav.
You know, dont be giving advice out to people about something that you havent done yourself. We dont want to hear theories that are said to be fact. For example, Shooff was told that the tach wont work with the v-6 swap because of the # of cyl difference. Which sounds believable. Thats not true and I have proven it. Look at the cluster shot of my pics on page 9, thats sitting there ideling.
If you dont know dont post.
01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e
Well im currently building a 6 second delay timer that will control my cav pcm. Since the cav pcm is causing the mileage jump if its turned on the same time as the rest of the car, a 6 second delay will hopefully fix that. The reason that I chose a 6 sec. delay is if I wait 11 sec. the cluster wont accept the serial data from the cav pcm for the guage.
I have the timer built, I tried it in the car using the 5v from the gam pcm gas guage signal. It works fine till Its time to turn on the relay for the cav pcm. The amperage from the 5v signal isnt enough to energize the relay and the timer circuit. Im goint to operate it with some batteries to see if the rest of my plan will work before i go any further with the circuit design.
01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e
Timer works great
I had to hook up another relay that resets the timer when the starter is engaged. If I dont reset it then the cluster wont accept the data for the guage.
All I have left is swap the circuit over to a board and do away with the battery. the circuit appears to work better with a 9v battery so im going to have to figure out how to build a circuit that reduces the 12v without effecting the amperage. Shouldnt be too difficult.
Once I get everything just right Ill post a parts list and circuit diagram.
01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e
Guys dont do the cav pcm with the gam PCM. It wont work. It appeared to function properly until the car sat for an hour or so. Turn the key on then the mileage jumps. Im ripping the cav pcm back out. I have contacted Seimens VDO, which Im positive that they make all of the components in the electrical system for GM. I have recieved an email that My message has been forwarded to the correct department and am currently awaiting a response. We'll see if I get any where with them.
I tried to install a digital aftermarket gauge but it is the opposite resistance for full and empty. The Company is Nordskog I think, I called them on it and they said that they can make me anything that I need. If I cant get any where with Seimens VDO then Im going with the Aftermarket gauge from Nordskog and put it in an a-pillar pod.
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Thanks a MILLION for all your efforts Joe, it shows you are a REAL J-body lover and really do know whats going on !!!!!
joe if your having so much problems use the grand am pcm not the cavalier pcm
TR, pay attention to what your reading. I am using the Gam PCM. The cav pcm was supposed to be strictly for the gas gauge. The gauge wont work with the gam pcm.
91z24audio, Thanks for the compliment, I have found that the only way to get a 100% true answer is to try it myself. The only problem is that its playing havoc on my nerves. I worl on it for a couple of days, then take a couple of days off. Thats the only way I can keep my sanity. I just wish there were more experimenters out there that I can look to for advice instead of spending days on this thing.
I havent heard anything back from seimens VDO, I dont think I will hear anything.
Im going to get a hold of Nordskog monday and have them make me a gauge.
Do any of you know a company that makes a gas gauge for our cavy's without custom building one.
01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e
Joe, you want an aftermarket gauge or what? I'm pretty sure autometer has gauges that will read the fuel level.
