some progress info on the V6 swap - Page 41 - Third Generation Forum

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Re: V6 swap
Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:23 PM
Its all loomed up so it would be kinda hard. What are you doing for a computer? Mine is a stand alone unit. Others have spliced the two harnesses together. It all depends how you want to do it. As far as standalone units go the install was pretty simple but I did hours upon hours of looking at diagrams and seeing what wires went where and what wires did what. So do a little research and if you decide you want to go the stand alone route get a hold of either myself or SHOoff who has the same setup as me and has been a great help to me. Your best best is to plan the best you can ahead of time but your going to run into lots of headaches along the way. Its not going to come easy Ill tell you that right now. But its fun, and well worth it, even though I have yet to drive the beast

Re: V6 swap
Thursday, November 08, 2007 11:15 PM
Patrick - the return spring for the clutch. There should just be a whole in the lever somewhere. That should be where it goes, but it'll be hard as @!#$ to put it back on. I had one on an old car that I had to use a wire coat hanger and pull it through. (no spring tools available).

Did you get the car running then? Just curious as to if my tune is working out ok for you.






Re: V6 swap
Thursday, November 08, 2007 11:22 PM
Yup started like the fifth turn over. I had to change the cranking pulse width just slightly but hey its to be expected there not all gonna be the same But it revs like a champ, just haven't got to drive it yet because of that clutch return spring,. On another note went to bleed the brakes today and no fluid is getting to the front passenger caliper, curious as to why that happened, is there a switch in the master cylinder that might have closed a valve going to that line or something? The car had no battery when I was bleeding the brakes so is that a possibility ?

About the spring, I thought I had it in the right way but when I push the pedal it doesnt put any tension on the spring and the pedal just drops to the floor, there is a little tension about halfway down but no where near what there should be. I really just want to figure out those two things so I can i drive it.

And the diaphragm of my AFPR ruptured so now I need to fix that. Blah this project is really burning me out. But I know it will be worth it in the end
Re: V6 swap
Thursday, November 08, 2007 11:42 PM
Z24 Speed wrote:Its all loomed up so it would be kinda hard. What are you doing for a computer? Mine is a stand alone unit. Others have spliced the two harnesses together. It all depends how you want to do it. As far as standalone units go the install was pretty simple but I did hours upon hours of looking at diagrams and seeing what wires went where and what wires did what. So do a little research and if you decide you want to go the stand alone route get a hold of either myself or SHOoff who has the same setup as me and has been a great help to me. Your best best is to plan the best you can ahead of time but your going to run into lots of headaches along the way. Its not going to come easy Ill tell you that right now. But its fun, and well worth it, even though I have yet to drive the beast


truth.

There's a half-dozen ways easily to wire the V6 up









Re: V6 swap
Friday, November 09, 2007 7:47 AM
Z24 Speed wrote:Yup started like the fifth turn over. I had to change the cranking pulse width just slightly but hey its to be expected there not all gonna be the same But it revs like a champ, just haven't got to drive it yet because of that clutch return spring,. On another note went to bleed the brakes today and no fluid is getting to the front passenger caliper, curious as to why that happened, is there a switch in the master cylinder that might have closed a valve going to that line or something? The car had no battery when I was bleeding the brakes so is that a possibility ?

About the spring, I thought I had it in the right way but when I push the pedal it doesnt put any tension on the spring and the pedal just drops to the floor, there is a little tension about halfway down but no where near what there should be. I really just want to figure out those two things so I can i drive it.

And the diaphragm of my AFPR ruptured so now I need to fix that. Blah this project is really burning me out. But I know it will be worth it in the end


Heh, that's a little problem I guess with my tune. It don't start so easy. Mine rarely starts on the first try unless it's warm already. Usually it's the 2nd or 3rd time that it starts. What did you change the cranking PW to. That way I can adjust mine and hopefully all will be good with it. Another thing you might wanna look for when you get it going. Mine seems like it might be running too much fuel now that it's colder out. I don't know if I have the correction factor too high, or if it's just my tables being off.

For your clutch pedal. Did you bleed the clutch at all? Cuz when you open the bleeder and push the clutch down, it'll stay down til you pull it up. This helps so you can bleed it yourself. Thought maybe you might have accidentally left the bleeder open.

Brake bleeding. Is it new calipers, or still old ones? Cuz i've had brakes that would do that before but they worked. Just a junk old bleeder.





Re: V6 swap
Friday, November 09, 2007 9:25 AM
Ill check what I changed here later on this afternoon for ya.

Clutch, I started bleeding it, but the pedal just kept droping so I didnt think I was doing something right. Should it eventually build pressure or something?

The calipers are new, and I even disconnected the line at the caliper and pressed the brake and nothing through it, Also opened bleeders ontop of the master cylinder. The front most has fluid come out, the one behind that nothing. so thats what made me think possibly there was a valve or something that got closed somewhere.
Re: V6 swap
Friday, November 09, 2007 11:13 AM
Jason- I just went out and checked what I had my cranking pulsewidth table set to. Top number is 17 and bottom is 4. Then generated a curve from that. starts up right away usually
Re: V6 swap
Saturday, November 10, 2007 4:21 AM
Sweet, thanks





Re: V6 swap
Saturday, November 10, 2007 5:42 AM
No problem man, let me know if that works out for you.
Re: V6 swap
Saturday, November 10, 2007 7:32 AM
Will do. I gotta get the car up by the apartment door and run the extention cord outside. My laptop doesn't currently have a battery and It will only power off the car when it's seeing over a certain voltage. So the engine has to be running. The other car will run it fine with the car off, but the light keeps flipping back and forth between a/c power, and DC power.

It's a cheap laptop, and it has the filler plate for the battery. So i'm gonna get creative and just build my own battery pack with some Li-Ion packs. It'll be a whole ton cheaper to do that and modify the laptop slightly than to buy the expensive pack for a 100 dollar laptop.

Problem with starting it and moving it over here is that even if on a 30 second run, that warms the engine slightly and throws the crank fuel off a bit.





Re: V6 swap
Saturday, November 10, 2007 5:05 PM
Sooo I just drove it for the first time

My tune needs some tweaking and I have a few mystery noises but with a 2.5 inch downpipe to a 2.5 inch magnaflow muffler Its kinda hard to hear whats making noises over the exhaust! But brakes fade in and out. But I think I know how to fix that. Im leaking a little coolant out of my upper radiator hose at the radiator, Leaking a little gas out of the return line, and its running rich as hell. And it feels solid as hellll in the car.

But even with the car running like ass right now... It still hauls major ass! And Im in love with v6's. Im going to go hump my car again

Re: V6 swap
Saturday, November 10, 2007 6:11 PM
Here's a good one for ya.

I was getting the front O2 sensor no reading CEL, so ran 2 new wires from the PCM signal wires to the O2 sensor socket (new sensor even)... still nothing

I think I blew up a PS hose too.

Quote:

It still hauls major ass!


Even with my tranny problem, it'll hit 80 pretty damn quick LOL









Re: V6 swap
Saturday, November 10, 2007 11:17 PM
Im so glad god created the man who had the idea to do this haha. Im going to try and fix my problems tommorrow and go for another drive. I took it out for a little drive and in second gear just cruising I was like screw this slow crap and punched it and the tires went spinnnnn my face lit up like a little child on christmas
Re: V6 swap
Sunday, November 11, 2007 1:52 AM
You're running a 3100? (i just looked at your registry).

Yeah, your fueling is going to be off. Way off if it's the small port 3100. Me having the 3400 which is a bigger engine and higher flowing than the small port, can naturally run more fuel.

One thing you can do is change your O2 sensor correction factor to like 50 or 100 or whatever. Right now if using my tune it should be set to 10. Which means that the ECU will only correct fuel 10% in either direction. So if it's overly rich, you should see the gauge staying at 90% all the time. Changing the number to 50 will let it go all the way to 50% or as high as 150%.

This is also how I tuned it off the narrowband. I'd do a certain area and watch. Once it got under 150% correction in all places, I turned it back to 40 and so on and so forth. I would do that until you can run it with the correction factor set to 10 or lower. I try to get mine set so that the gauge will stay between but not hit 90 or 110%. That's one thing, it's supposed to be a closed loop system, so it takes care of itself. But you learn very quickly that the computer takes time to react, especially when an engine is moving really fast. So the tables have to be close. Basically it uses what's in the table and then gives or takes away some.

Glad it's working out for you. Now time to post videos.





Re: V6 swap
Sunday, November 11, 2007 9:39 AM
Ya, unfortunatly but its what I had laying around. It only had a 1000 miles on it. But I plan on doing a top end swap and well see what else I can do. I did change some fueling since I knew you had the 3400 but not to much. Ill mess with it some more today.

Definatly videos today
Re: V6 swap
Sunday, November 11, 2007 1:51 PM
Blahhhh this car is just one thing after another. got the fuel leak fixed. and my regulator broke again bummmerrr. Time to get an actual quality one I guess. I just want to be able to drive it for more then two minutes. Well get there later this week I suppose.
Re: V6 swap
Monday, November 12, 2007 8:03 PM
Hey guys, Just thought I'd stop in and see whats going on. You guys still messing with those programmers. i have been catching up for the last couple of hours and have seen some interesting stuff. Thats a great swap Sticky by the way, just need to keep people from posting there.
There was a guy asking about the function of stock gauges. Mine work. Well almost all. The fuel gauge is an external dakota digital on the a pillar. But all tach, speedo, warning lights, function properly. They are using the 00+ serial data lines. Do not piggy back 00+ PCM's by using the Serial data wire!!!!!!! At every key cycle the mileage will jump a couple of hundred miles.

Funny thing, My wife has a 98 cav, stock 2.2....blaaa. Any way we decide we are going to go out for the evening. She says she wants to drive my cav. Well I give in and let her. She loves it, I didnt like the first few stop signs, though. when she wasnt quite use to the gas pedal being so responsive, about gave me whiplash The problem now is I have to hide the keys. They really should have came stock this way.

Still going, since the minor ground issue months ago its been a great car. Every one should own one of these!



01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e

Re: V6 swap
Tuesday, November 13, 2007 3:55 AM
Joe - I saw in the sticky about the fuel gauge. Can you post up a Part number for that. And maybe also the ohms for Empty and Full, in case people want to look for something other than a Dakota Digital gauge, should they go your route.





Re: V6 swap
Tuesday, November 13, 2007 3:56 PM
joe malechowski wrote:

Still going, since the minor ground issue months ago its been a great car. Every one should own one of these!


I agree, after i did my swap, i pretty much shut the hood and drove it. Put on nearly 1000 miles on it and no problems yet.

I'd still like to try to get the factory tach to work though, the aftermarket one i have now looks too out of place.


660 powered sunfire
Re: V6 swap
Tuesday, November 13, 2007 4:44 PM
SHOoff wrote:Joe - I saw in the sticky about the fuel gauge. Can you post up a Part number for that. And maybe also the ohms for Empty and Full, in case people want to look for something other than a Dakota Digital gauge, should they go your route.


I m goin there right now to do it.


01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e

Re: V6 swap
Tuesday, November 13, 2007 5:53 PM
I put them in the sticky, as well as the oil gauge, sender and a pillar pod.

As far as choosing a different brand for a fuel gauge, Do your home work here because I bought a Nordskog gauge that sucked A@#. The reading was so unreliable that the only time you had any good Idea how much you had in there was in park after sitting there for 5 min. While your driving Your getting a reading from 2 miles ago if that. Their solution was to put a capacitor in the signal which maybe cut it down to 1 mile ago reading. What Im saying is dont think your saving money here by getting a cheap one. If you do, Buy a good pair of shoes for when you run out of gas.

I believe the OEM Ohm reading is 50- 250, Its been a while since I did mine but Im pretty sure thats it.
This is the reading for all newer GM cars and trucks that the PCM reads directly the sender signal.

The reason that I chose this Gauge is because It Is the only one that Is Universal fit, and Is a great item to list for any one on here to use. I believe the older cavs have different ohm readings (0- 90). More than likely the ones that the sender signal goes directly to the gauge.


01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e


Re: V6 swap
Wednesday, November 14, 2007 2:29 AM
Hmm......

I'll have to take a peek into it and see if the 95-99's are any different. Since they changed a lot of electronics in 2000 it's a possibility. But i'll just start by cross referencing part numbers to see if the fuel pump assy. is the same.





Re: V6 swap
Wednesday, November 14, 2007 6:56 AM
http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=2&i=312990&t=312680#312990

Quote:

First off the Autometer gas gauge operates off of the old 0 to 90 OHM sending units . The 1998 and newer sending units operate at 40 to 240 OHM . That means when you are completely out of gas with one of these units and have it hooked to an Autometer gauge it will read around half a tank of gas


http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=2&i=368209&t=368198#368209
Quote:

For most GM vehicles 1965 to 1997. Will not operate on some 1998 or later vehicles with 40 - 250 Ohm sender










Re: V6 swap
Wednesday, November 14, 2007 4:14 PM
Yeah I found all of that out the hard way.
Actually when the gauge is out its 50 and 250. I checked mine and a couple at work and they are the same. Why they arent 40 and 250 i havent got a clue. Also listed as 40 and 240, same thing. There is also a 240-40 for chryslers which is backwards for us so dont get them confused.


01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e

Re: V6 swap
Sunday, November 18, 2007 5:12 PM
When doing this swap Can you use a strut tower bar or would you have to fab up one?
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