I have the GM front STB, which works with just about anything, but here's a couple pics for clearance reference

im using a ractive strut bar, it comes close to the alternator but it don't touch



the car was fun to drive around and didnt take long to get up to hwy speeds at all, but its sitting in my driveway waiting to see if a buddy has a car trailer/dolly to get it over to the garage it will be stored in. when it starts getting warm ill have to pull the motor out and i think im going to need a new tranny even with all the problems ive had im not sorry i did the swap



My 3400 Swap Page

JAS wrote:When doing this swap Can you use a strut tower bar or would you have to fab up one?

I also have the GM STB like Kardain has.

It's kinda weird. If you were to take one of our cars and put it next to a Grand Am with the 3400 you would notice something right away. In the J-body, it looks like there's more room to work on it. (the engine seems to sit farther from the firewall in the J-body). Which is nice when it comes time to get to changing those back 3 spark plugs.

One thing that you do need to look for is ground clearance. The 3400 oil pan sits lower than the 2.2. So you have to watch it if you lower the car. Definately wont be able to slam it to the ground.

GM strut tower brace as well. Plenty of clearance.

RSF98 wrote:im using a ractive strut bar, it comes close to the alternator but it don't touch



the car was fun to drive around and didnt take long to get up to hwy speeds at all, but its sitting in my driveway waiting to see if a buddy has a car trailer/dolly to get it over to the garage it will be stored in. when it starts getting warm ill have to pull the motor out and i think im going to need a new tranny even with all the problems ive had im not sorry i did the swap

Is that a mass air sensor on your intake?


660 powered sunfire

Dxray wrote:Is that a mass air sensor on your intake?

Yes, all 96+ 3x00 engines use a MAF. The reason some V6's on here don't is because they used a 2nd gen ECM, a 94-95 F-body ECM (myself), or a stand alone that doesn't use one.

I "could" use one, I'm pretty sure the MS is able to be set up for it.

But then i'd have to go find the sensor. I didn't get it with the engine. So I'll be fine running speed density.

I have one!!

I forget who's using the F body wiring. Stupid question, does the f body pcm plugs have the same amount of pins as the n body. If not are atleast the individual ends of the wires the same? (crimp on ends) Can the individual wires be switched over to the n body pcm plug?



01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e

I'm using the 95 F-body wiring from a 3.4 5-speed car. The plugs are the same as the 94-95 N-body 3100 ECM, as they are the same actual computer with just a slightly different flash. There are three 32 pin connectors on them, unlike the 96+ that have the two (64 pin IIRC) connectors. The 94-95 are OBD 1.5, and if I were doing the swap over again, I would not use them, because I found out right around the time I got my engine running that you can not tune them. There is no support for the OBD 1.5 because of it's very short life span. I also didn't know about the 94-95 N-body ecm being the same, otherwise I would have just used that harness, but in the end I learned a lot, so it was worth the extra time and effort.

Lets just say that That would be fine if I couldnt tune on it. Then I could get the 94-5 wiring for the 3100 grand am, the 95 camaro pcm flashed from factory with the 5 spd, All put on a 3400 5 speed. Now wouldnt that be a direct plug in swap if some one wanted to run a stick and not mess with any programming, daily driver. Im talking of course in a pre 00 J, so most of or all of the gauges would work in the cluster.


01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e

Well I hope my cluster is not bad,
Do you know if there is any way I can test it?
Its weird though i dont want to think its dead because the gas gauge is sitting a little above quarter tank.
granted thatts not accurate but its not just flat lined either.

Get a cluster wiring diagram. Check the powers and grounds. I dont know what year you have since I think you sauid that your odometer doesnt light up. I thought that you had a 98, but My wifes 98 has the old style odometer. If you have the new style It should be the same as my 01. i have a diagram for the 01 but not the older one.

On the 01 (possibly from late 99 and up)
Pin G Orange hot all times, clstr fuse 10a
pin J Pink hot in assy run or start , bcm/clu fuse 10a
Pin H Blk/Wht Ground to front of trans axle
Pin A Blk Ground to left side of dash on rt side of steering column support

If you have the old mechanical odometer Im not sure these are the same.


01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e

No its not that it doesnt light up, it doesnt roll over.
I dont get anything out of it.
No airbag light, no seatbelt light, no SES light, no high beam indicator.
Temp and Fuel gauges are around 1/4 but i have MS so stock computer not getting a temp anyways, but the fuel and speedo should still work. Im at a loss. I checked the ground in the engine bay, its fine.
I will look into finding the diagram for it.
All my fuses are good by the way.
I have yet to check the ground on the column support. but I dont know how that would have came loose.

sounds like you need a cluster. If Im not mistaken 95-99 cav or sun will fit.
Can any one verify the years?


01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e

Joe, So I can use a 95 Grand Am 3100 harness, 95 Camaro Computer, and it's plug and play, and most of my gauges should work?

I dont know for sure, that was my question. From what I have heard that was my theory. I dont believe any one has used that exact combo yet. You can be the first, the test dummy. I was the test dummy with the electronic auto swap. Not so much fun. I amost wanted to scrap it a couple of times.


01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e

OK then, I will try this. I think the Pin-outs are the same for the GAM computer and Camaro computer of that year.

joe malechowski wrote:sounds like you need a cluster. If Im not mistaken 95-99 cav or sun will fit.
Can any one verify the years?

95-99 Fire and Cav clusters are not swapable like the 00+.

Michael Antle wrote:OK then, I will try this. I think the Pin-outs are the same for the GAM computer and Camaro computer of that year.

I'm actually trying to get my hands on the pinout for the 95 GAM 3100 harness to verify this. I was talking with someone on 60degreeV6 about it, and they believe that the pinouts could be different. Ironicly, AutoZone doesn't have info on those year N-bodies. I'm considering having my ECM reflashed to the GAM one since I can't tune it. I thought it would run properly using the Camaro settings, because I have smaller injectors, but it's still running rich.

For anyone thinking of using the F-body ECM, I've also heard from guys on 60degreeV6 that it's not a good idea to run that computer on a 3x00, because the timing is more advanced on the F-body, since it's an iron head, not aluminum. I don't have any knocking issues, but I figured I'd throw that out there.

BTW, Z24 Speed, you can use a cluster from 96-98 with a mechanical ODO for sure. I actually think you can use the 98-99 with digital ODO, because that's all stored in the cluster, not the BCM, as the 00+ units are, but I haven't confirmed that they will actually function. I'd like to see the guts of a 99 cluster to confirm, but I believe the main board is the same between them, and the ODO is just a plug-in module.

Quote:

Temp and Fuel gauges are around 1/4 but i have MS so stock computer not getting a temp anyways, but the fuel and speedo should still work.

The fuel level should work even with nothing in the car at all. Though running it by itself makes it a tad bit on the inaccurate side, as with hard acceleration you can see the needle move toward the E quite a bit. The speedo will only work as long as your wire is hooked up under the hood.

Sounds like the cluster is popped. Go through all the wiring and be sure that you don't have any shorts. You might be able to pull your cluster apart and see if there are any fuses in it that can be changed. But worst case, you can probably ebay yourself a cluster for 30 bucks or so.

Z24 Speed wrote:Well I hope my cluster is not bad,
Do you know if there is any way I can test it?
Its weird though i dont want to think its dead because the gas gauge is sitting a little above quarter tank.
granted thatts not accurate but its not just flat lined either.

Another thing here since I just thought of you. Since you're using my tune, you might want to be a bit careful. Probably want to get that knock sensing circuit into the MS. I was out driving mine and I was hearing some pops and bangs from the intake. It didn't appear to be running lean. It might be related to how long my car has sat with 1/8 tank in it (at least 2 months). Just saying, beware of some detonation.

Haha actually I have an update.

I have pulled the heads and taken them in to get resurfaced because I was having a bad leak from my heads.
Nothing to due with your tune Jason, I blew a heater hose on the highway and lost coolant and MS only reads to 260 and I didnt even happen to look at the lappy while I was driving. got home with a little steam coming from the engine, realized I blew a hose and my heads were now bronze
So thats all taken care of now, I went ahead and picked up some LS6 springs and will be popping those in. Heads were so warped they had to be milled 12 thousands of an inch. They say thats a lot.

But anywho, I see I have been running EXTREMELY rich, my pistons and exhaust ports were pitch black, Ill take some pictures later.
Ill be cleaning those up and leaning out my tune here this weekend.

Should be back on the road this weekend if all goes well.
Other than that nothing to dramatic has happened.
Ill get some pictures of the whole thing put together and finshed finally.

And I do plan on adding the knock circuit as well as using the FIDLE output on my relay board to run my fan relay.

Bah! Don't lean it out just yet. Put a cam in it while you have it apart, then tune for that.

60degreeV6 has a ton of cam options for the 3x00 engines.

Haha. Oh how I would love to cam it, but its going to have to wait.
I would have to drop the motor to be able to get a cam in it any how.
But it will be done eventually!
I got my eye on a turbo flange for that nifty little cross over pipe we have, extend it out a little bit and throw a nice big turbo right where the battery is now!



MMM yummy it should look a little something like this guys