oldskool (eco meatcake) wrote:Dr.Vega wrote:are you guys sure that in hpt you are reading from the correct map read out?
It is the same MAP pid that we used on his dyno run at the bash - and in that log it read 104kpa in boost. Now it reads 57kpa in boost, and also reads vacuum with the key on and engine not running...needless to say that is impossible unless some kind of black hole has formed in qwibby's block that defies the laws of physics 
. Was that......a unicorn?
Being that we switched both the ecu and the map sensor and logged the same phenomenon, it seems a problem with the harness is to blame.
This does not sound like the issue i recently had, but. You can go into vehicles in your HPT file and delete the OS file for that car. This makes the scanner scan the ECU for supported files or sensors.
mine was not shwoing any reading for knock sensor at all. After deleting the OS file and then connecting the scanner it then worked.
FU Tuning
Ummm the less back pressure exhaust for him the better....
Cutout would be sweet though. I'm game for one
Good luck with the harness.
Hey Phil. what year and model did the engine come from? Does it really matter? A good friend of mine said you have to be extremely careful of what year you get. he said for a few months on the cobalt the rods were from a different supplier and they were weak. he said if it had the lines down it he couldn't remember if they were the weak ones or not. anyone have any insight on this?
SLO CAV (the autoxing one) wrote:Hey Phil. what year and model did the engine come from? Does it really matter? A good friend of mine said you have to be extremely careful of what year you get. he said for a few months on the cobalt the rods were from a different supplier and they were weak. he said if it had the lines down it he couldn't remember if they were the weak ones or not. anyone have any insight on this?
Yes, I forgot about this, last I heard it is true, not all 2.4s have forged rods. Actually, a friend of mine is one of the ones that discovered this for the Cobalt crowd when he blew his 2.4.
Edit: I just talked to my friend who looked into this.... he spoke with someone within GM Racing, and Chevy did in fact use half forged rods & half cast rods in the 2.4 despite writing it out as them all having forged rods. It was to cut corners & save money.
My friend sent a cast rod right through his oil pan because of the misinformation, and thinking they were forged.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, November 23, 2010 3:07 PM
Well ryan, myself, and pj havent heard anything on this. My motor is out of an 08 malibu. And ive seen dozens of videos on youtube of mid to high 300 whp 2.4, Bill also never mentioned it when we talked. Unless there is solid proof otherwise its almost like a he said she said thing. How many others have blown them? Your friend could have blown his due too a poor tune or other things, not just power.
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Mrs Jazer wrote:SLO CAV (the autoxing one) wrote:Hey Phil. what year and model did the engine come from? Does it really matter? A good friend of mine said you have to be extremely careful of what year you get. he said for a few months on the cobalt the rods were from a different supplier and they were weak. he said if it had the lines down it he couldn't remember if they were the weak ones or not. anyone have any insight on this?
Yes, I forgot about this, last I heard it is true, not all 2.4s have forged rods. Actually, a friend of mine is one of the ones that discovered this for the Cobalt crowd when he blew his 2.4.
Edit: I just talked to my friend who looked into this.... he spoke with someone within GM Racing, and Chevy did in fact use half forged rods & half cast rods in the 2.4 despite writing it out as them all having forged rods. It was to cut corners & save money.
My friend sent a cast rod right through his oil pan because of the misinformation, and thinking they were forged.
I've never heard of this, nor have a heard of many failures of 2.4 LE5 rods due to reasonable power levels (in the 300whp range). But...i'll hold judgment until i read the thread. At what power level did your friend destroy his/her engine? Who tuned it? Let's see some details. Meanwhile, i'm gonna look into how many different part numbers there are for factory replacement LE5 connecting rods.
One point i want to make clear though, for every one tuner who knows what he's doing on a given platform...there are ten who are hacks, who will screw it up and blame their lack of experience and/or knowledge on a hardware failure.
...
Fred @ SMG did the turbo & tuned it. This was not because the car was improperly put together.. Like I said, my friend physically spoke with GM Racing division. This is a friend off the forums I know him personally, not someone pulling stuff out of their ass. He can't recall the details as far as the casting/stamps on the rods, but to my knowledge it's the only way to actually tell, by inspecting them.
Oh yeah, and the inspection of our friend's rods, was proven that they were cast, not forged.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, November 23, 2010 3:44 PM
Its just weird that there is this 1 instant, if this were a serious issue there would be a lot more info out there. Idk im skeptical until i ser the thread and some more proof. Nothing against your friend, but even if he talked to someone at gm racing doesnt mean he got cold hard fact. Right now the proof ive seen is in favor of a bottom end handling 400
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What kind of power was he at when they went?
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I'm almost out of posts until december, so let's try to get this straight. There are at least four vendors (reputable ones) who run the LE5 in 300+hp power levels and make no distinction as two what year/casting number/ect you must have to run it reliably.
I'm not doubting your friend blew his motor, but more details would help distinguish this from the literally hundreds of kits sold among these vendors to LE5 owners of various year/make/models of cars.
What year make and model did he/she have?
You mentioned that the car was turbocharged - what turbo, boost and power level were they running?
Where there any modifications besides the turbo kit/bolt ons?
If your friend has a build thread (or carnage thread), that would be extremely helpful.
Also, I'm kinda wondering what GM racing has do to with the LE5? I was not aware of any programs currently or prior to GM's bankruptcy that in which the LE5 was involved. They obviously worked extensively with the L61 early on, then the LSJ, and I'm not sure on the LNF, but i've just never heard anything on the LE5.
Again, i'm not doubting your or your friend, but this in my research is a very isolated incident and requires some in depth analysis before we can say this swap isn't worth a damn
...
All the info in the Ecotec Build books backs up Jazer. It lists the LE5 rods as cast and should be upgraded at 250hp.
Ryan, people have held 300+whp on stock L61s. I find it harder to believe that the LE5 came with forged rods because i havent seen any documentation verifying it. It all has been word of mouth.
its an old concept. time for something new to take the reigns. - Z yaaaa
Tinkles, every turbo kit/sc kit sold for these motors, even their base kits hit 250 whp. 250 crank as listed in the build books could be hit with bolt ons and a tune. The evidence is still piled in the good favor.
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IamQwibby (Eco Meatcake) wrote:Tinkles, every turbo kit/sc kit sold for these motors, even their base kits hit 250 whp. 250 crank as listed in the build books could be hit with bolt ons and a tune. The evidence is still piled in the good favor.
How is that evidence for forged rods? Those kits were not designed by GM for the LE5. That just shows that there is alittle "wiggle room".
its an old concept. time for something new to take the reigns. - Z yaaaa
Sorry I don't have a lot of info about it, as I wasn't directly involved with it....
The friend I'm talking to at the moment that just verified this, is not the one who owns the car, he was just closer friends with the kid that does. He told me he was running 305, I'm assuming whp and it was Cobalt SS (obviously N/A model) Not sure of the year. I couldn't locate a thread & I'm not familiar with GM Racing at all, but that is who my friend said he contacted and they confirmed that not all LE5s were released with forged rods.
Slowcav where did you hear about this? It can't be entirely isolated if he has heard of this elsewhere?
Im not trying to disprove you guys, just passing on what I can about the topic... just seemed to me, if cast rods were in fact found in an LE5 I would say it's worth finding at least checking over your rods just in case. I completely forgot about this until Slowcav brought it up.
I will send an email to my friend who actually owns the car and see if he can't give me more information about it... also if any of you know Fred @ SMG he may be a good contact as well, as he was directly involved with my friend's car as they are good friends and he did the turbo/tuning.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, November 23, 2010 4:30 PM
Base kits kyle, base. Their high end kits are low 300 whp, which is 340 +/- crank. And if companieS were selling kits that would blow the motor upon first pull there would be issues, and not small ones. 60 whp is a lot of wiggle room. Videos all over youtube of mid 300 whp le5's. It seems obvious to mr that there would be a large scale documentation of people blowing motors left and right.
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I'm not extremely concerned about the material or "type" of rods. I've read cast,
forged (2008) forged (2007), and other variations. Just because it's cast doesn't make it too weak, and just because it's "forged" doesn't make it strong enough. Like Phil said, the major vendors out there (hahn, DDM, performance autowerks, zzp), all run these things in the 300hp range, and it seems to be that pump gas on "high compression" as much the limiting factor as internals are. When it comes down to it, isn't it all about what power you can make reliably?
I'm sorry to sound like the herald of this particular bottom end, but i did a lot of research before jumping into this swap and didn't find many credible carnage stories. So when one comes up, it would be great to see all the facts.
Is it plausible to believe that when the motor was introduced in 2006 that a weaker rod was used? sure it is. it would just seem that more people would experience catastrophic failure trying to keep up with the power levels of the vendors and their peers.
Secondly, you can count on 1 hand how many pushed an l61 to over 300 whp.
Jazer - thanks, any more info you can gather the better, but imo the video footage, and talking to vendors who build kits for these still has me convinced the LE5 can do what i want it too.
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Well if it is true that approx half were released with cast rods and half were released with forged rods, or maybe even a lesser percentage were released with cast rods.... that most of the people that actually build this particular engine, lucked out and ended up with the stronger rod....? The Cobalt crowd generally goes for the SS/SCs or SS/TCs for builds. Most 2.4s are kicking around nearly stock. Kinda like Russian roulette. Just something to think about.
Even if only 10% were released with weaker rods... that would be enough for me to double check my own rather than finding out the hard way.
Just trying to help something that could be preventable. You might be totally fine, but is it not worth checking into???
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, November 23, 2010 4:36 PM
The only way to check rods is to tear apart the block, at that poiny you might as well put aftermarket in it
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The JBO isnt filled with 300whp L61s that have blown either.
AMS' "base" turbo kit for the GTR requires a built engine. Just because something is a "base" kit doesnt mean that it does not surpass the engine's stock limits.
its an old concept. time for something new to take the reigns. - Z yaaaa
Ams and JBo? I think even you can distinguish the customer base.
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Phil - I will post what information I can provide as soon as my friend emails me back.
On another note, there is no need to get defensive or for anyone to be fighting about this. It was brought up for your protection Phil, we don't want to see you fail because of something that GM neglected to define... Tinkles said they openly say it in the build book, and my friend's source said that GM didn't advertise it, as it was a decision made to cut costs. It's certainly a controversial subject where it stands right now, but I think it's for everyone's benefit to just try to solidify the facts. I am completely indifferent to this, but I'd like to help figure it out if I can provide any additonal info on the subject.
