bottom end can hold 700HP... can the Ecotec? Eh James? HAHA <br>
I would have to think a much...much......MUCH stronger, reliable motor in the 3800. As far as stock is has 240 HP, you try to wind 240 out of a little 2.2 it can only take it for so long with out some money...work..and a bit more money......
and one other thing.........
TOURQE
Ofcourse it requires money, but since they are 2 compelely different engines there has to be an equal medium. The eco would probably get better milage, it's lighter, and its the latest GM engine. The 3800-II is a generation old already, its a V6, It's not DOHC and its heavier.
The 3800 II is also stronger but the Eco can push the same amount of power remember? <br>
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2004 2.2 Ecotec in a Sunfire GT. Check my profile for more info
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Not to sound like a complete idiot but what does DOHC mean/stand for???
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03 ECOTEC Inside......Git Owned.......
Quote:
The 3800 II is also stronger but the Eco can push the same amount of power remember?
The eco will not push that kind of power without some serious internal mods which are very expensive. The 3800 can support over 600hp on the stock bottom end. It would cost you twice as much as the 3800 to get an eco to 600hp. <br>
Quoth the Raven 'Nevermore
raven@accesswave.ca
Raven Autosports
55 McQuade Lake Cres,
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
(902) 850-3330
10.82@132
not to mention how dependably the 3800 can hold that power, you can drive coast to coast without much worry (ie to t he bash) whereas with a boosted 2.2, you may need a little luck or a trailer.
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.... and everytime i look within i recongnize the darkness; familiar to the image of the artist....
Can an ECO take 150 shot of N20 stock? Didn`t think so... proof enough of how strong the engine is already, when starting with a stronger base, ofcourse it will take less work to make more power, the damn thing is bullet proof
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It just makes more sense to go with the 3800 if you're looking for power and more power. 2 more cylinders will make a difference. And when the 3800 comes supercharged, you know they had to have a slightly beefier engine to support it. Ecotec may sound good, and they may make you think it's extremely capable, but in the end, it can only take so much, and it will cost more to get there. (Sure, taking a 2.4 out and putting in the 3800 costs a bit too, but it'll still cost a bit to get your hands on an Ecotec and put that in)
V6 just makes sense. And it's also extremely unique right now. Not many people have gone with a 3800 in a 3rd gen, and nobody has put a 5 speed to it yet. So let's see now:
1 - More available power
2 - Less worry about engine dying
3 - Shocks the heck out of people who get to see the engine in the car
4 - First of it's kind to ever be done
Well, in my books that's more than enough to convince me to choose a 3800 over an Ecotec.
As far as the 3800 being over a generation old, well that shows me they never had to replace it due to major failures. It's given them time to work out the kinks and bugs. People have had YEARS to play with the engine and get more power out of it, and the aftermarket is going to be better than a fairly new engine like the Ecotec. So what if it's heavier? So what if it's not DOHC? It's a V6 for crying out loud. I know if I was driving a Grand Prix GTP or a Bonneville SSEI or a Regal GS (I think that has the 3800), I would not be wishing for a DOHC Ecotec or anything like that.
How many cars with the Ecotec engine can kill a 3800 SC powered car? I'm willing to bet if you keep in mind money put into both cars, the Ecotec will always lose. So obviously the 3800 SC was chosen because it's a powerhouse already, the engine is solid, sounds awesome running, looks amazing in a 3rg gen J-Body, and it has a much higher limit to how much power you can get out of the thing, and it is amazing how much power you can get without many upgrades.
Now, I'm not bashing the Ecotec as an engine in it's entirety, but merely trying to show that it doesn't compare to the 3800SC. I'm not a mechanic, I don't have facts and figures in front of me, and I'm not that mechanically inclined. I can work on cars doing basic stuff. But I do know what I hear a lot of, and I do know what anyone can look up on the internet for the numbers both engines are capable of. So if you don't believe me, that's all right, look it up for yourself.
BTW: If anything is wrong in this, feel free for anyone knowledgable to point out the mistakes and correct them.
Also consider driveablilty. A 700 WHP Ecotec is not going to be very user friendly in terms of driving it every day. A 700 WHP 3800, however, will likely provide a better daily driving experience.
Speaking of originality and 3.8's, when is someone gonna convert the first 3rd gen to rear wheel drive and slap a Grand National engine in it?
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2000 Z
bump
and raven----
couldnt you in some way use the gauges out of a 3.8 5 speed comaro that you most likely took the pcm out of, pick up a junker dash benzel and fiberglass around to make it like up with the new gauge cluster? im just asking if that would work out of shizts and giggles.
thanks
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.... and everytime i look within i recongnize the darkness; familiar to the image of the artist....
The PCM is out of a GTP, that is why we are going to use the gauges from a GTP. They are basicly the same shape as our gagues just a little bit bigger. It should fit in there pretty good with only a few mods to get it to fit. <br>
Quoth the Raven 'Nevermore
raven@accesswave.ca
Raven Autosports
55 McQuade Lake Cres,
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
(902) 850-3330
10.82@132
Raven, Just lookin for an update. I emailed you on a price I have for 99 3800 supercharged engine with harness and computer, 1200$, with less than 100 miles on it. was curious what you thought of the price, and how your car is doin. Please post and give us an update if you have one.
That is an awsome price. I would scoop that up
We haven't had a change to get the car in the shop over the last two weeks as it has been very very busy at the shop. Were hopeing to have the new mounts and reinforcing done sometime next week. The first show of the year for me is at the end of this month so it has to be ready by then. I will post up pics and videos when I get them. I tell ya that the wait is killing me, I dream about it almost every night now
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Quoth the Raven 'Nevermore
raven@accesswave.ca
Raven Autosports
55 McQuade Lake Cres,
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
(902) 850-3330
10.82@132
I also just put some new pics up in the photo& media forum. <br>
Quoth the Raven 'Nevermore
raven@accesswave.ca
Raven Autosports
55 McQuade Lake Cres,
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
(902) 850-3330
10.82@132
I wonder if they make a kit for that
Make a kit for what? A 3800 swap? Don't think so, we can make everything you will need to do it though. That would be as close to a kit as you can get. <br>
Quoth the Raven 'Nevermore
raven@accesswave.ca
Raven Autosports
55 McQuade Lake Cres,
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
(902) 850-3330
10.82@132
Hey James, did I understand Master Promotions right? I read somewhere "No Entry Fee" for the vehicles...? Read it on the entry form for Wheels 2004 actually.
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<img src="http://www.geocities.com/teknic7/stickly.txt">
This car gonna be there?....If so me and my lazy @!#$ will be too <br>
You can bet that the first show this car is at, I will try my hardest to get to... Even though I've basically already seen everything on it already... But totally finished, all cleaned and painted, etc, would be nice
And who knows if I'll ever see it before a show all done. <br>
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<img src="http://registry.gmenthusiast.com/images/teknic/personal_pic.jpg">
"Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall..... Nobody knew what he was doing up there anyway"
Man that is insane!
The 3.8L V6 is a better choice if you plan on driving the car alot. An Ecotec with that much power is pretty much undriveable on the street. Just ask any Honds owner with a seriously large and laggy turbo on it, how is Civic or Interga feels in urban traffic... That's if it even see's daily USE!
4 cylinders are generally very good until about 400hp where they get kind a split personality and go hyperactive if the pedal is pushed beyond 1/2 throttle. Especially with the Ball-Bearing turbochargers available. Forget lag, you'll get instand boil instead if you used any of Garrett's GT series turbos.
An N/A Ecotec won't even produce half this engines output without being streetable. Functional limit of N/A 4 cylinders is around 200hp. Usually your useable torque is around 5000rpm. Not great for creeping around traffic in 2nd gear with.
Besides 6 cylinders will always produce more power than 4, its just math.
I love the Ecotec engine program, I just wish alot more of what GM is using on the track would filter down to you guys. M62 Eaton blowers aren't going to cut it...
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Neons-less again!
Something comin up very soon!
Teknic: Well sort of. Their is no entry fee but you still need a participant pass with is $12. I'm not sure what the general admission is.
Ryan: My goal is to be ready for this show, I'm regestered for it. The @!#$ thing is I have to work that weekend so I'm not going to be there for about half of the show.
My mufflers (flowmaster 40 series) came in today, have to pick them up in the moring. I am getting the car towed to the exhaust shop at the end of this week. It has been very very busy at the shop the last few weeks and there hasen't been time to finnish the rear mount. We still have three weeks so I don't see any problems.
Anthony Thomas: I did a lot of research on what I wanted to do in respect to engine mods. At first I was going to build and turbo my 2.4l, I had everything. Then I heard about Martin doing this swap with an automatic and that turned me on to the 3800. After doing lots of research on the 3800 my mind was made up. The 3800 is a very solid motor, reliable and it responds very well to mods. This engine has been around for years and GM has pretty much worked all the bugs out of them and the few that are there can be fixed with aftermarket. Look at the cars that GM is now putting this engine into....Monte carlo SS, Impala SS. I think that the 3800 will be around for a bit and the aftermarket for it is just getting better. As you said the car is very easy to drive in the city. The boost-bypass is engauged under normal driving conditions so your not making any boost when just driving in the city. But when you come on to it the power is there, no lag just instant power and lots of it. <br>
Quoth the Raven 'Nevermore
raven@accesswave.ca
Raven Autosports
55 McQuade Lake Cres,
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
(902) 850-3330
10.82@132
dang it took me an hour and a half to read this... 45 mins to read and the other 45 mins to clean the drool off keyboard
......way off topic, you thin double z can do this on a malibu
2001 chvey malibu
1999 cavalier
Of course..anything is possible. Just email Brad at doublez@eastlink.ca and he can give you more information. <br>
Quoth the Raven 'Nevermore
raven@accesswave.ca
Raven Autosports
55 McQuade Lake Cres,
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
(902) 850-3330
10.82@132
