*****RSM SUPERCHARGER REFLASH - EXPOSED******** - Page 7 - Tuning Forum

Forum Post / Reply
You must log in before you can post or reply to messages.
Re: *****RSM SUPERCHARGER REFLASH - EXPOSED*******
Saturday, June 10, 2006 8:32 AM
oldskool wrote:

^^ Add your company to the list that now includes Exploited Racing, Maximum Boost, and now RSM racing. When you look at it the way that you are, JBP is really doing the best thing by not commenting, because someone in this "community" will definately find a negative in whatever they say. While these companies offer(ed) strong support for the JBody platform, they were basically flammed out of that market by this website. Who knows if they had a product that worked well, because either not many people bought them, or those that used them effectively never shared here, only those that had a problem.


Did I read this correctly? Are you suggesting that just because companies deal with j-body parts that we should support them no matter how much they rip us off or how garbage their products are?

They say a sucker is born every minute... and I'd say there was a minute some time ago that was yours.







Re: *****RSM SUPERCHARGER REFLASH - EXPOSED*******
Saturday, June 10, 2006 9:34 AM
Quote:



oldskool wrote:

^^ Add your company to the list that now includes Exploited Racing, Maximum Boost, and now RSM racing. When you look at it the way that you are, JBP is really doing the best thing by not commenting, because someone in this "community" will definately find a negative in whatever they say. While these companies offer(ed) strong support for the JBody platform, they were basically flammed out of that market by this website. Who knows if they had a product that worked well, because either not many people bought them, or those that used them effectively never shared here, only those that had a problem.

Wild Weasel wrote:

Did I read this correctly? Are you suggesting that just because companies deal with j-body parts that we should support them no matter how much they rip us off or how garbage their products are?

They say a sucker is born every minute... and I'd say there was a minute some time ago that was yours.


No, you didn't read it correctly, nor did you get the point. In the three years that I've been gathering information from this forum, it has become obvious that people here are more willing to report a product that sucks a$$ from a company with a questionable reputation than one that works well. I have just come to accept that if I want to know if there is a sucky product for my car, I can check up on this site daily and find out. Only rarely does someone who has a good product from one of the above companies mention it here.

As far as JBP in specific, they may very well have learned from the past; when Exploited or Maximum Boost tried to come on here and support/defend their work, they were met with a major bitchfest from people that had not even purchased the product. JBP thankfully is above that; that doesn't mean their products work or don't work, but at least they are not going to dig their own grave by making a peep here because no matter what they say, some punk will turn it around to a negative. And as far as your attack on me being a "sucker", I'll just say I've been reading up long enough to know how to not waste my money on lousy products.
Re: *****RSM SUPERCHARGER REFLASH - EXPOSED*******
Saturday, June 10, 2006 11:01 AM
The BBB is like an online petition, its pissing in the wind, i dont know why ppl act like it makes any kind of difference



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85





Re: *****RSM SUPERCHARGER REFLASH - EXPOSED*******
Monday, June 12, 2006 10:20 AM
good service, bad service, its all in a personal point of view. same with a bad product or a good product. what one person modify's slightly to fit and calls excellent, is junk to someone else who doesn't want to have to fit something. BBB report is about the same. a person can read it and go ok they resoved the complaints so i'll buy or go holly crap they got complained about so i better not buy. everyone has their own take on life.



Re: *****RSM SUPERCHARGER REFLASH - EXPOSED*******
Friday, June 16, 2006 10:09 AM
Looks like I found a JBP Reflash holder Brad Kueter.....

Maybe someone can scan his car





SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
RACER X - '80 Chevette Quad 4 Swap

TeamGREENPerformance LSD Inserts
Re: *****RSM SUPERCHARGER REFLASH - EXPOSED*******
Friday, June 16, 2006 1:17 PM
SpeedRacerZ wrote:

Looks like I found a JBP Reflash holder Brad Kueter.....

Maybe someone can scan his car


Would be interesting. Anyone know where he is located? The picture in his registery shows about 22psi on the gauge. Would be nice to see his reflash.



FU Tuning



Re: *****RSM SUPERCHARGER REFLASH - EXPOSED*******
Friday, June 16, 2006 1:53 PM
SpdRcr, you didnt find him, I supplied you with his name, and I explained to you in another thread what the deal was with that, oh well.
Re: *****RSM SUPERCHARGER REFLASH - EXPOSED*******
Friday, June 16, 2006 1:57 PM
"Last Update: Thursday, February 24, 2005"

hasn't posted in the past 30 days.

But digging up old threads, I found this quote and thought it was funny:

Shifted wrote:

RSM and JBP are using EXACTLY the same thing to reflash PCM's, what one can do, so can the other, just so happens that RSM has some ethics to go along with it.




Cardomain|Myspace

Re: *****RSM SUPERCHARGER REFLASH - EXPOSED*******
Friday, June 16, 2006 3:42 PM
Brad has posted like 4-5 times overall, then was fed-up with this place, makes me wonder how many people are probably already over the 500 hp mark with their 2.4's and dont even come on here.
Re: *****RSM SUPERCHARGER REFLASH - EXPOSED*******
Friday, June 16, 2006 4:32 PM
I'll hazard a guess.... not many?

It takes a LOT of work to even surpass 400 hp on a 2.4L... to be a reliable runner (as opposed to a one-race kinda motor) is even harder. I can only think of one guy who's done it, and a few that are close to it. Even 300+hp on a daily driver is a tall order.

Just because he's not on JBO.... if he's on a forum somewhere talking about it to someone.... or out at the tracks running it.... someone out there would know something about it. You don't make a Cavalier that fast without someone somewhere noticing. There's quad4forums, all the Cavalier Yahoo groups, Racer's Edge, etc... lots of people out there making power that don't come to the JBO anymore.





Re: *****RSM SUPERCHARGER REFLASH - EXPOSED*******
Friday, June 16, 2006 4:54 PM
OK, maybe not 500, but you got my drift....there are tons of people that could be a HUGE help, that steer clear because of the crap that goes on here between noobs and other people that solely enjoy pissing people off...for the lack of a better term

Re: *****RSM SUPERCHARGER REFLASH - EXPOSED*******
Friday, June 16, 2006 9:09 PM
Fst Cavy wrote:

SpdRcr, you didnt find him, I supplied you with his name, and I explained to you in another thread what the deal was with that, oh well.


You posted you knew a kid with SAFC and 550 injectors running 22psi........ Not once did you say anything about a JBP reflash...... you didnt even mention he was a registered member here..... I just hazard a guess and searched his name on the JBO and found his registry...... in his registry it says he had the JBP reflash..... I then posted it here.

I'm also going to go with Lenko...... we do talk with some hard core J-body guys, and even they havnt recorded 500+ numbers...... Mike Karas was in the 400+ market, not an 'active' member of the JBO, but we still heard about it here..... if there where some Proven 400+ 2.4's out there, I'm sure we would know about them, let alone 500+......




SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
RACER X - '80 Chevette Quad 4 Swap

TeamGREENPerformance LSD Inserts
Re: *****RSM SUPERCHARGER REFLASH - EXPOSED*******
Friday, June 16, 2006 9:48 PM
wait.... guess he was running a custom "chip from Japan", not the JBP reflash after all.

Quote:

Pics ARE VERY OUTDATED!!!, My sleeper car. But It's not your average Cav anymore
1 of 140 sets of cams made in england along with polished and Ported head, custom prom from japan to equal out air and fuel with the bigger valves and lift and to advance timing around 4 degrees at idle, short shift, centerforce stage 3 clutch with drilled pressure plate and flywheel,IHI VF12 turbo with custom built 1 1/4" tube manifold, spearco intercooler with full 2 1/2 piping, type-s BOV, catco high flow cat and megan racin exhaust full 2 1/2" from turbo back, 370cc RC Engineering injectors, adjustable paxton FMU, t-rex inline fuel pump, Msd Dis 2 programable,apexi s-afc -worth its weight in gold, Drag 1/2 shafts. Poly Upper, lower and tranny mounts. Full A-pillar gauges {air/fuel oil presure Boost and Egt}. RK Sport gauge face, Short Shift. The list goes on and on.


Link Link Link

hmmm..... I wonder what cams those where? I also want that custom Japanies prom......




SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
RACER X - '80 Chevette Quad 4 Swap

TeamGREENPerformance LSD Inserts
Re: *****RSM SUPERCHARGER REFLASH - EXPOSED*******
Sunday, June 18, 2006 8:33 PM
Whatever, your right, you know him, you have talked to him, as a matter of fact, your friends with him. I read that profile and was embarraced myself to tell you the truth, it looks like a 15 year old wrote it, but I can tell you, he is very smart, he is a machinist, and his car was VERY fast, he has no proven dyno numbers, but if I had to guess, 390-400. I also didnt say anything about the JBP reflash because he never paid for it, he never used it, he never got it. So are you calling me a liar? I told you what HE WAS running, 550cc injectors SAFC, 22 lbs of boost....until he spun a rod bearing. Also, one of our conversations was about FMU's, and he told me he never used one, so honestly, I dont knwo what the h$ll he is talking about in his car's profile. I am not on here to protect this guy, I dont know how I got in the middle of it, by simply stating the truth, and you hopped all over me for it, but I am done arguing with you.
Re: *****RSM SUPERCHARGER REFLASH - EXPOSED*******
Wednesday, June 21, 2006 10:47 PM
Ok, i didnt bother to read all 7 pages of this topic... but i thought i'd throw something out there.... My dyno sheets, before and after the RSM charger.... Pay close attention to the A/F Ratios... Rodimus im cool with you, and maybe someone just messed up and didnt reflash yours... But i dont see the A/f ratio getting significantly richer than stock with the Vg-9 pumping 6psi into it.
BEFORE:


AFTER:


You'll notice that before my A/f never got any better than 13.5, and after it hits a low of 12.5.... Granted it only richens up towards the end, but then again thats the only time we;re really getting any real boost numbers. Also the biggest thing that i would say proves that they DID do a reflash is right at 4700rpms the a/f drops from 14.6 down to 12.8. No FMU, no Fuel mods, just the PCM they sent me back.

-Ben


<img src="http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/831000-831999/831395_11_full.jpg">

Re: *****RSM SUPERCHARGER REFLASH - EXPOSED*******
Wednesday, June 21, 2006 10:52 PM
Now dont get me wrong... im seriously eyeing up the HPtuners software as soon as my Audi sells.... Hello new laptop and software, then 7,000rpm rev limiter and 12:1 A/f ratios across the board


<img src="http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/831000-831999/831395_11_full.jpg">

Re: *****RSM SUPERCHARGER REFLASH - EXPOSED*******
Thursday, June 22, 2006 3:44 AM
^^ That is the reason why more than one unit should have been tested on HP tuners before RSM's rep was totally destroyed. Granted that reflash doesn't look optimal, but it is NOT fake. The minor temp and pressure differences on the two charts above are not enough to account for a unit difference in AFR. If this guy has no fuel mods, just a ECU reflash, how can one explain the distinct fattening up at 4800 rpm in the "after'" chart?

Again, I'm not arguing that this is optimal; in fact it's no where close to what you could get with HPT, but it proves that the product does exist...





Does it go faster?
Re: *****RSM SUPERCHARGER REFLASH - EXPOSED*******
Thursday, June 22, 2006 4:15 AM
Yea im not trying to say that Rodimus is false... Im just throwing that out there, i too dont particularly like RSM too much since Craig left... hes the only one i delt with and havnt had a great experience since.

BTW, the ONLY diff in those 2 sheets is the S/c and clutch. Full mod list at that time was:

Rksport cat-back w/ gutted cat
Lower mount
RKsport Underdrive pulley

Im pretty sure that was it at the time... Again, the cat was gutted on both runs so that isnt the reason for the diff a/f ratios


<img src="http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/831000-831999/831395_11_full.jpg">

Re: *****RSM SUPERCHARGER REFLASH - EXPOSED*******
Thursday, June 22, 2006 9:17 AM
my numbers are coming off a wideband, not a dyno tailpipe sniffer, we dont need to discuss which of those methods is more accurate

and if your AFR really is between 12.5 and 13.2, your NOT in good shape, id bet money that you have the max 8 degrees of knock retard from pretty much 4000rpm to redline, my AFRs were exactly the same mid 12s to start and then gets leaner towards redline, so theres no difference in my pcm vs yours, whether you know it or not if your running leaner than 12.2AFR on an ecotec under boost you will have knock retard and alot of it. If a company charges 300 bucks for a reflash, it better give you the proper AFRs, no knock, and some advanced spark, but we can all see that these things were not changed.

so really nothing Ben has posted proves that its real and even if it is what kinda company reflashes an ECU to 12.5-13s on AFR for a boosted car, with no real fuel mods?

Sounds like a knocking time bomb to me, and for those that try to say you make more power when your leaner, I was 168hp on Rsm's tune, i added 310cc injectors and then it was 185hp, you make the call....................



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85





Re: *****RSM SUPERCHARGER REFLASH - EXPOSED*******
Thursday, June 22, 2006 10:29 AM
Quote:

my numbers are coming off a wideband, not a dyno tailpipe sniffer, we dont need to discuss which of those methods is more accurate

and if your AFR really is between 12.5 and 13.2, your NOT in good shape, id bet money that you have the max 8 degrees of knock retard from pretty much 4000rpm to redline, my AFRs were exactly the same mid 12s to start and then gets leaner towards redline, so theres no difference in my pcm vs yours, whether you know it or not if your running leaner than 12.2AFR on an ecotec under boost you will have knock retard and alot of it. If a company charges 300 bucks for a reflash, it better give you the proper AFRs, no knock, and some advanced spark, but we can all see that these things were not changed.

so really nothing Ben has posted proves that its real and even if it is what kinda company reflashes an ECU to 12.5-13s on AFR for a boosted car, with no real fuel mods?

Sounds like a knocking time bomb to me, and for those that try to say you make more power when your leaner, I was 168hp on Rsm's tune, i added 310cc injectors and then it was 185hp, you make the call....................


Look man, I'm not denying that the whoever paid for the ECU you tested got screwed. There obviously is a problem is all the ECU parameters match stock. But now the claim is that RSM deliberately sells a reflash that does NOTHING, why not check Ben's ECU with HP tuners and confirm? This is a huge claim to make on a community like this that makes and breaks upstart and established companies every day...
I already said its not even close to ideal, but an inept reflash is far from a fraudulent reflash. I think everyone here jumps on a flaming bandwagon as soon as something goes wrong. Maybe RSM needed to reconsider the scope and reliability of the reflash, but now, if they're even in businees, they may as well close up shop and pick a new career. This is what "the community" does to companies that don't have a 100% spotless track record.





Does it go faster?
Re: *****RSM SUPERCHARGER REFLASH - EXPOSED*******
Thursday, June 22, 2006 12:08 PM
Rodimus Prime wrote:

my numbers are coming off a wideband, not a dyno tailpipe sniffer, we dont need to discuss which of those methods is more accurate

I believe just about everyone will agree that the wideband trumps the tailpipe sniffer..... but thats neither here nor there.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

if your AFR really is between 12.5 and 13.2, your NOT in good shape, id bet money that you have the max 8 degrees of knock retard from pretty much 4000rpm to redline, my AFRs were exactly the same mid 12s to start and then gets leaner towards redline

Looking at his dyno, he starts to make additional HP over stock, starting down @ 32-3300..... granted its only a HP or two, but it is running a tad richer over stock.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

so theres no difference in my pcm vs yours, whether you know it or not if your running leaner than 12.2AFR on an ecotec under boost you will have knock retard and alot of it. If a company charges 300 bucks for a reflash, it better give you the proper AFRs, no knock, and some advanced spark, but we can all see that these things were not changed.

Actually, there is alot of difference between the two PCM's....... and to start out, it has nothing to do with the RSM reflash. Acourding to the HPT compairison of the two (well, 02-03), there are 20 differences. Alot of it has to do with fuel....... its amazing what the Eco PCM can do. I would like to scan Ben's PCM as well, would like to see what VIN its running...... if RSM did do any 'modifacations' to the PCM, its not a boost sensitive system like they say it is.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Sounds like a knocking time bomb to me, and for those that try to say you make more power when your leaner, I was 168hp on Rsm's tune, i added 310cc injectors and then it was 185hp, you make the call....................

To a point, it will...... once you start getting detonation/knock, the PCM ramps up the knock retard, and there goes your power.


as for the difference in the 2 A/F ratios...... there could be a few different reasons........ when the probe was calibrated last, condition of the probe, the exhaust that was on the car each time, codes the PCM might have, and last but not least, the A/F command of the ECM (I might have missed a few other reasons)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, June 22, 2006 12:15 PM

SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
RACER X - '80 Chevette Quad 4 Swap

TeamGREENPerformance LSD Inserts

Re: *****RSM SUPERCHARGER REFLASH - EXPOSED*******
Thursday, June 22, 2006 12:27 PM
I'm not the first person to discover this either, Borgs had a tech 2 put on his after the RSM "reflash" and could find no evidence of changes either, theres been speculation on the grand am forums as well, I dont believe in coincidences once it goes past the 1st or 2nd example

id be willing to bet I could tune a stock 02 PCM with a stock fuel system to put out better numbers than a 02RSM "reflashed" and thats really sad. I dont even know fully what I'm doing yet and I've picked up 20hp or more over thier config. They have a 1500 dollar tech2 that can do far more and im using a $650 tool with less adjustable params. If I had a spare engine and PCM laying around Id go for it but at this stage of the game with 92k on the motor I dont need to abuse it anymore than it already was rolling around for 6 months on the RSM fuel management (lean and knock retard all over)



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85





Re: *****RSM SUPERCHARGER REFLASH - EXPOSED*******
Thursday, June 22, 2006 1:19 PM
I have no idea what the Dyno sheets are supposed to prove, because they do not prove the PCM was reflashed.

Here is the list of included parts for the RSM SC kit copied directly from their site...


Supercharger Kit

Includes Vortech Supercharger, all brackets and oil lines, belt and pulleys, ECU programming, adjustable blow-off valve, FMU, induction piping and K&N cone filter. All the parts needed for the install are included in the kit, no extras to buy, 60 HP gain at 6 PSI with no other mods.
Available for Ecotec, 2.4L Engines



Anyone want to hazard a quess as to why the A/F ratios changed with the S/C kit installed?

Please post a pic of your engine with the kit so we can see there's no FMU.
.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, June 22, 2006 1:22 PM

sig not found
Re: *****RSM SUPERCHARGER REFLASH - EXPOSED*******
Thursday, June 22, 2006 1:41 PM
Quote:

my numbers are coming off a wideband, not a dyno tailpipe sniffer,


Truly those are the same thing. I have not seen a dyno yet that did not at least have a wideband for air/fuel readings. Of course how old it is, when it was last checked etc... Lots of things can play a factor in it. I would say his air/fuel readings are just as accurate as yours. In my book they are no better.



FU Tuning



Re: *****RSM SUPERCHARGER REFLASH - EXPOSED*******
Thursday, June 22, 2006 2:22 PM
The FMU is an option in the kit, if you choose the FMU you do not get the reflash and vice versa, those that do choose the FMU option are alot happier

Its a good kit and I love it, theres really only minor design flaws some of which can be corrected with a little work. Ive gone over this in other theads, the radiator hose is poorly placed and a older fraying belt if not closely monitored can cause a rupture, this can be corrected by using stainless braided line for protection and zip ties for more clearance, a simple $20 dollar solution, the other problem is the intake piping rubbbing on the hood, this happens simply because the kit was designed to fit an 03 which generally has more hood clearance than the 02s, again a very minor issue

The only real problem is those that choose the non fmu option, it leaves you too lean, had I known more at the time I would have gone the fmu option route and would have been happier but then again knowing then what I do now I prob wouldnt have even gone the supercharger route but whats done is done and I've invested thousands into purchasing the kit I can't just scrap it and spend $3500 more on something else. I'm trying to make the best of the situation and get as much power out of it as I can. I see it now as my challenge and I know that I can make it work with the right engineering and supporting mods.



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85





Forum Post / Reply
You must log in before you can post or reply to messages.

 

Start New Topic Advanced Search