There is an answer for your question, but like Haha said, it's going to be biased because of the belief systems that both men have. In fact, the answers were given in the story, so you've answered the quesstions yourself.
"Speak the truth, and leave immediately after"
"The urge to save Humanity is almost ALWAYS a false front for the urge to rule"
"He who knoweth things as they are and not as they are said or seem to be, he truly is wise, and is taught of God more than of men."
John Lenko wrote:Eh... here's a wild one for ya..
"Miss S" a 14 year old girl here in BC's Childrens Hospital. She's got cancer, and is undergoing treatment for it. She had a tumor removed from her leg, and faces amputation. Thing is.. she's a Jehovah's Witness... so she's in court trying to fight having a blood transfusion. Apparently it's against her faith to have a blood transfusion.
So let's see... her religion could very well kill her... sounds like a good enough reason to me to say "@!#$ religion"
Update on this one... went to court, and the girl lost her case... the judge ruled that her religion would end up causing her death, and ruled that she could not refuse blood transfusions.
Apparently the Bible says it's wrong to accept another's blood? What a load. Hello, science? Thank you for saving another stupid one.
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First before you speak, you should make sure you have at least some knowledge of the thing you speak down on. Then you won't come across as ignorant when you start posting about thigns you apparently have no idea about.
"Speak the truth, and leave immediately after"
"The urge to save Humanity is almost ALWAYS a false front for the urge to rule"
"He who knoweth things as they are and not as they are said or seem to be, he truly is wise, and is taught of God more than of men."
She was willing to DIE for this Jehovah's Witness bull@!#$... refusing the blood transfusion that probably would have saved her life... all because this stupid "Bible" book says not to accept others blood.
The judge slapped some sense into her, allowing her to actually LIVE some of her life... considering she's 14 years old, she hasn't even started to think for herself yet.. aside from this religious brainwashing garbage.
Are you saying that she deserved to die?
(FYI, I don't like being called ignorant for simply stating my opinion)
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I have no idea where JW(s) get their info, but it's not from the Bible. The Bible does not say that accepting someone's blood is wrong. In fact it does say that if you have opportunity to save yourself with killing someone else, you are obligated to (refusing treatment is considered suicide, definately a sin). They also consider Christ to be seperate from God, so again, I have no idea where they get it, but it's not from the Bible.
How's your opinion now?
PAX
My opinion that this girl is a brainwashed imbicile is unchanged.
Apparently the article is misquoting sources or something... either way.. she's a dumbass. Willing to risk certain death because of some cult? Argh... the stupidity.
Now hang on... isn't using God's name in vain a sin? So saying it was in the bible that she couldn't accept the blood... that's in vain right? DIE SINNER!!! rofl.. oh man, where do I get this stuff? ha ha ha...
I was raised as a Christian... but I don't believe any of that hogwash now. Since there's no proof of any of it... nor is there any proof to the otherwise... I'll stick to my original idea.. I'm alive now.. I'm gonna live life now to the fullest... and who gives a crap about when I'm dead.
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Well, mis-quoting the Bible isn't taking the Lord's name in vain, but I see your point. JWs are cultish, in that they encourage their members to disassociate with non-members, so that makes it a cult. Where they pull the bits and pieces from to define their beliefs I'll never know. Just know that they are not Christian regardless of their claims. They are a closed society (againt the teachings of Christ) and they do not believe that Christ is Lord (that goes for Mormons too). You may think that they are open because of the missionaries they send out door to door, but in reality, if you are not a member they are not to befriend you, only convert you. That is anti-Christian in my mind.
PAX
"The Bible does not say that accepting someone's blood is wrong. In fact it does say that if you have opportunity to save yourself with killing someone else, you are obligated to (refusing treatment is considered suicide, definately a sin). "
I would like to edit the above quote of mine to read "Without killing someone else"
Save yourself with killing.. That's almost funny.
PAX
John Lenko wrote:She was willing to DIE for this Jehovah's Witness bull@!#$... refusing the blood transfusion that probably would have saved her life... all because this stupid "Bible" book says not to accept others blood.
The judge slapped some sense into her, allowing her to actually LIVE some of her life... considering she's 14 years old, she hasn't even started to think for herself yet.. aside from this religious brainwashing garbage.
Are you saying that she deserved to die?
(FYI, I don't like being called ignorant for simply stating my opinion)
Refering to the ignorant remark, it was not sent out as in insult. Fact of the matter was that you proved your ignorance with the statements you made about something you really knew nothing about. (Comparing JW's to Christians) That's apples and oranges buddy, so I was just saying you should make it a point to be more informed about thigns you choose to speak on before you say something.
"Speak the truth, and leave immediately after"
"The urge to save Humanity is almost ALWAYS a false front for the urge to rule"
"He who knoweth things as they are and not as they are said or seem to be, he truly is wise, and is taught of God more than of men."
Quote:
I'm gonna live life now to the fullest... and who gives a crap about when I'm dead.
I don't think it's so much what you do after you're dead compared to why we are here. First we try to define why we are here, that then coresponses to what will happen when we die. Theoratically speaking, if you don't care about what happens after you die, that would mean that you don't give a crap about before you die either. On the other hand, if you do care about what happens to you while you are hear, that probably means that somewhere in you you believe that there is a meaning to life. And if there is a meaning to life, wouldn't it be logical to assume that that meaning coresponses to what happens to us after we die?
I hate to think that we are just here to be here, just walking about without a meaning, without a cause. That's more emptiness then a life time is worth.....
Jive wrote:Quote:
I'm gonna live life now to the fullest... and who gives a crap about when I'm dead.
I don't think it's so much what you do after you're dead compared to why we are here. First we try to define why we are here, that then coresponses to what will happen when we die. Theoratically speaking, if you don't care about what happens after you die, that would mean that you don't give a crap about before you die either. On the other hand, if you do care about what happens to you while you are hear, that probably means that somewhere in you you believe that there is a meaning to life. And if there is a meaning to life, wouldn't it be logical to assume that that meaning coresponses to what happens to us after we die?
I hate to think that we are just here to be here, just walking about without a meaning, without a cause. That's more emptiness then a life time is worth.....
No.. that's exactly it. There IS no afterlife.. souls are
. You die, you're dead. That's it, end of story. Neither of us has any proof to the otherwise, so there's no point arguing about it.
I live my life for today.... because when I'm gone, that's it. I'm gone. No one will care. No one will remember me in 100 years.
I'm not going to change the way I live my life today, so that I can get my non-existant spirit to some magical Heavenly place. It's all hogwash.
I stepped on an ant on the way to work today... OH NO!! Poor little thing is meeting his Maker right now I bet.. I wonder if he's been a good ant or a bad ant??
My brain hurts thinking about this stupid crap.
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I'm always interested to see how threads like this turn out. Its healthy debate, for the most part, and people get an opportunity to voice their opinion.
I think what it all boils down to is faith. Truly believing in something that does and doesnt have evidence, based on historical facts and science. True, there were no pictures of Jesus walking on water, but that is when the faith factor comes in. It truly is a matter of how much you want to also put into understanding the topic. For some, it is very important because it allows them to better understand why we are here; a purpose.
John, I can see where you are coming from. For some, no matter how hard they think about it, it just doesnt make sense, and the how the world is today doesnt help much either. For me, I like having my faith. It makes me part of who I am. I can see the "crutch" comment by some of you as being realistic, because without their religion, some people would be lost because they just go around forcing it on people because its "who they are". For me, I take pride in my faith and enjoy it. In believing that there is a higher power that created us and listens to us, it helps me better understand a lot of things that other people are confused about (ie: war, relationships, death, etc).
As for where the world is at today, with war, violence, etc, it does leave one to think "where the heck is God". But, if you are one who believes in God, you understand that He gave us free will. The thing is, for example with the war we are in right now, the people we are fighting believe in a different type of faith, all the while focusing to please a higher power. And, they look at the western world as those who are greedy, selfish, and have squandered our position of power in the world. Not everyone is going to agree on this topic, and has the history of the world has proven (ie: the Crusades, our current war, etc) is that people will die for their religion, even if that means doing something horrible, like killing innocent people by flying a plane into a building or strapping a bomb to a 10-year-old girl and walking her into a deli. Its all very sad.
Yeah, the world is a screwed up place, and for me, I just do what I can to be a good person to others and by how I live my life. I think it would be cool if everyone believed in God and got along, but thats an unrealistic notion. I just feel that by really knowing me, maybe people will be interested in what makes me "me", which is partially my faith and belief in God. Everyone has their right to make their own decision, I guess my advice to everyone would be to just make sure its educated.
Alright, I am gonna go get some Carrows, cause I am S T A R V I N G. Good conversation guys, just remember to keep the gloves up.
-Teske
Put that way... I have no "faith". Especially in my car
If there was some "super power" responsible for placing human beings on earth... it doesn't care about us anymore. I'm not wasting my precious little time here on earth praying to something that isn't likely listening.
Good on ya, for those of you who believe. But I ain't joining your 'cult'.
Flame on!
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Quote:
I live my life for today.... because when I'm gone, that's it. I'm gone. No one will care. No one will remember me in 100 years.
So what do you hold to be true about why we are here? What is your reason for getting up everyday and living life? If there is no afterlife, if there is not nothing, then why even care, why even waste the time in debating, it doesn't mean anything right?
It's not about changing you life, Christianity is more of a mind set than a way of life.
Why are we here? Got me. Don't really care that much, either. I just set out every morning to enjoy life and try not to make others miserable in the process
I enjoy a good debate... seems like it keeps me "in check" sometimes.
But for the hundreds of people that die every day... and the thousands that are born every day... yeah... we're a pest. Pest to the earth. We're like a weed going out of control. Do we serve a purpose of some sort? Maybe.. but I don't know what it is.
Maybe we're some sort of bizarre experiment... like.. we're actually a computer simulation that was given the power to think... we're playing a real (to us) version of Warcraft... heh... just with way more variables in it.
I still don't believe that there's some higher power out there that keeps an eye on us. I believe praying is a waste of time, and churches and religions are a way of making money (says me, who dumps endless amounts of time and money into a CAR.. what a load... ha ha ha!)
Yeah... well... hope I entertained you all
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John Lenko wrote:
I live my life for today.... because when I'm gone, that's it. I'm gone. No one will care. No one will remember me in 100 years.
With that attitude you are right.
The question now becomes, what does it mean to live life to it's fullest?
What if Columbus, Einstien or Tesla thought the way you do. How about those Wright brothers? Edison, Westinghouse? etc etc etc.. See without a purpose, you are correct, you will not be remmebered, and that's kinda sad.
I can trace my family back to 1028 when they invaded Devon (England) and built a church.. Huh, fancy that. In fact, the reason they are remembered is because they built a church. That church kept records and my entire liniage for over 1000 years is remembered.
PAX
Sorry, not over 1000 years, but ABOUT 1000 years.
PAX
From what I'm aware, no Lenko ever amounted to much.. aside from the JBO, I'm an unknown. The name is Ukrainian.. we all come from some inbred village that suffixes in "enko".. somehow I'm related to all those Ukrainian hockey players
How about the Pharoahs that constructed the pyramids? Or the slaves that actually did the building?? No one knows who they are. Maybe they were just like me...?
Seems pretty pointless to me to argue semantics about it all... I highly doubt Einstein, Tesla, Columbus, etc thought about the impact they were leaving on the Human Race. But hey... did they believe in God or not?
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John, I had always been Christian since birth. My Step-Father was a preacher, and my Mother a very devout follower. I was raised in the church...I mean I was 6 years old going to business meetings and things of that nature. It wasn't until I got older and started seeing the works of God in my life that i was able to witness to others about the things that he has done for me now that I can relfect on the past.
There are so many situations that I know it was the work of God that kept me shielded from disaster. I'm sorry to hear that you have turned away from beliefs you once had, and I ask that you just try him. Somebody once said, "taste and see that the Lord is good"!
I never once used to speak about the relationship that I had with God because it really wasn't a relationship. It was a, "oh crap I'm in trouble and I haven't prayed or gone to church in years...but can you help me Lord?!" kind of issue. It wasn't until he brought someone very dear to me out of soemthing that even man admitted they could not help. I remember my mother telling me that there is healing in the name of Jesus! For the first time I truly prayed and laid hands on this life that was so young, but fighting from being cut short so very early, and I prayed hard! Like I had never before, and you know what, the very next day...someone that was expected to die had a turn for the better, and it just was all down hill from that day.
I used to envy those that had a relationship with God because of how happy they seemed just to speak his name. He had shown himself to be evident in their lives and I wanted that, and he showed up big time!
All I say to you is just try him. It's not something that would hurt you any way you look at it!
"Speak the truth, and leave immediately after"
"The urge to save Humanity is almost ALWAYS a false front for the urge to rule"
"He who knoweth things as they are and not as they are said or seem to be, he truly is wise, and is taught of God more than of men."
^ Ya ^
And for the most part the pyramids are well documented, many builders are known as are the Pharos who ordered the work done. The archetects and master masons are known etc etc.. The only one truely in Question is "The Great Pyramid".. The Sphynx is a bit of a mystery as well. M<y point is that even though its very ancient much is known. You can bet just about everythinhg was know within 100 years of their building. Heck, some of that stuff took decades to build.
PAX
objectivism people. read some ayn rand.
im not sure if i believe in god. i think there may be a higher power, but i havent decided yet. either way, i dont live for an intangible being who doesnt do anything for me, but expects everything in return.
i believe in living for myself. i will do what i want when i want for whatever reason i want. i try to not intrude on other peoples lives and beliefs.
In the words of my favorite author, Terry Goodkind-
Your life is yours alone... Rise up and live it!
I do exactly that.
Thank you for your time.
Land Pirates sail the open roads
DISCLAIMER: If anything I say offends you, I don't care..wear a helmet. Also, the information
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others as well as myself may learn.
Premium sinc 6-17-04
Quote:
objectivism people. read some ayn rand.
Only if i'm suffering from insomnia.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
My opinion:
I have a lot of trouble believing everything I've learned in Church (I was raised a Catholic). I've always been a free thinker and rarely take a full side on an issue. The Bible is full of things that make me think, "Yeah, right!" It's a bunch of stories that shouldn't be taken literally.
It may very well be that Religion was created to give people hope. Maybe there is no God. But there are a lot of benefits to having hope. I'm willing to bet that many, many people would have killed themselves or suffered worse from illnesses if they didn't believe so much in the power or prayer. There is a lot of scientifc evidence that shows that the brain has a way of controlling pain better if the patient thinks they are receiving "treatment" - even if that treatment is a placebo.
So Religion - whether it is bogus or not - DOES help people in strange ways. And I have no problem with that.
But like John said - it does hurt people as well.
_________________
RIP
Quote:
But like John said - it does hurt people as well.
Especially if they answer the God question wrong. "Do you believe in God?" "No." <pow> "Dead."
"Do you believe in God?" "Yes." "Do you believe in my God?" "No." <pow> "Dead."
I still want Carlin to market "My God has a bigger dick than your God" bumper stickers.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
John, I could go on and on about this, but the basis for all religion is faith, of course. To believe in what you do not physically perceive you must have faith, it is the fundamental basis for all religions. I am like you, I have no faith in a higher power such as what most people think. But, you have to consider the question first of all - do I need verification of my existence or assurance of a higher power? No, I don't. I'll tell you what I have faith in - I have faith in myself, the people I know who will do right, and the things that are quantifiably in the bounds of my control. I don't need reassurance - I am just.
As many people know already, I am an agnostic. Having decided that theism and atheism are equally based on assumptions rather than observation, it's fair to ask if the central tenet of agnosticism might, likewise, be a bald assertion. The answer, quite simply, is that it is not. To say that the existence of God is uncertain, is based upon the observation that there is no proof, or disproof, of God's existence. In the face of a lack of evidence either way, one cannot assume that either proposal is true. This is a reasonable, logical conclusion, thoroughly rational, which makes no assumptions, and which does not engage in interpretation.
Quote from a website:
"A lot of people maintain their belief in a deity — in spite of their own doubts, or the irrationality of believing in something that's non-demonstrable — because it gives their lives " meaning." I must ask the obvious question:
Who says that life has to have meaning?
'Meaning' can only be inferred, it is not inherent. To look at the world, and one's life, and decide that it has some particular "meaning," is an erroneous inference, a baseless assumption. As an example, take the statement:
Jugebble megola varin os makudafuppel.
What does it mean? Are you able to figure it out? Are you dying to know? Or even just curious? Well, set your mind at ease; it doesn't mean anything! I just made up those words — they're gibberish. But — human instinct is to attempt some sort of interpretation; they're words, after all, and a collection of words must mean something."
