yes but an intercooler and fuel mods cost 400 bucks lol
LE61T PTE6262 Powered 
ywlssport 02,
You are studying to be a doctor, right? Proctologist maybe? You seem to be a specialist already.
Our monopoly on eco supercharging doesn't make your point. We sell the 2.4 the same price. Because it costs the same to make.
At least price out Vortech blowers. If you at least start there, you might not call me so many names so readily. As for the Mikes setup, I would never put a non intercooled turbo on anything. Turbos just run too hot. That kit is certainly an excellent value. Good find. It's my understanding that kit is made to get things started. It's not meant to give you all that's needed.
Our prices dropped because we now use CNC. We have a large number of components in stock. Our sale was started to shed some inventory in the slow season. You seem to be somewhat educated. I am amazed at your position on this. We have looked into getting components overseas like so many other businesses. We probably could offer cheaper prices had we done so. Instead we chose to keep things here where paying 60 year old skilled professionals cost a great deal more.
Since you made it so clear that putting money into these cars is so ridiculous, I wonder why 2500+++++++is rational for you. I wonder why anyone with such an opinion would want to be part of a community where they deem most all to be idiots.
it's clear that I can never get you to address my questions or see the light in any way. That's OK. I find you quite amusing. The most entertaining thing fo me is that your chosen profession is certainly the most profitable one around. When you realise the margins the medical profession enjoys...we can revisit our discussion.
quickBOOSTEDecotec wrote:sorry theres an rsm supercharged grand am around here somewhere, has an fmic too
Sorry, I meant Ecotec n-body.
I live my life a 1/4 mile at a time and for those 15 seconds, I realize, I need boost.
Frank S wrote:This is the thread about the Vertical Door Kit for my 85 Cav with a 3.7 Right??
Yo guy....you got pics of the vert kit yet? You ever get that muffler bearing fixed?
How bout that torqued out bindle rotor?
Craig Lewis wrote:ywlssport 02,
You are studying to be a doctor, right? Proctologist maybe? You seem to be a specialist already.
Our monopoly on eco supercharging doesn't make your point. We sell the 2.4 the same price. Because it costs the same to make.
At least price out Vortech blowers. If you at least start there, you might not call me so many names so readily. As for the Mikes setup, I would never put a non intercooled turbo on anything. Turbos just run too hot. That kit is certainly an excellent value. Good find. It's my understanding that kit is made to get things started. It's not meant to give you all that's needed.
Our prices dropped because we now use CNC. We have a large number of components in stock. Our sale was started to shed some inventory in the slow season. You seem to be somewhat educated. I am amazed at your position on this. We have looked into getting components overseas like so many other businesses. We probably could offer cheaper prices had we done so. Instead we chose to keep things here where paying 60 year old skilled professionals cost a great deal more.
Since you made it so clear that putting money into these cars is so ridiculous, I wonder why 2500+++++++is rational for you. I wonder why anyone with such an opinion would want to be part of a community where they deem most all to be idiots.
it's clear that I can never get you to address my questions or see the light in any way. That's OK. I find you quite amusing. The most entertaining thing fo me is that your chosen profession is certainly the most profitable one around. When you realise the margins the medical profession enjoys...we can revisit our discussion.
A proctologist...... ohhh that's rich. I really got a kick out of that. As for my choice in profession, it has very little to do with how much money I'll make. That is a personal comment my friend and you don't even know me. You are just some chaud from Canada who is writing eloquent emails to try and sound like "the good guy". Listen if I want Tim Hortons or putene, I'll call you. Yes, 2500 is about all i'm willing to spend on modding a my cavy. If I was frivilous and spent a lot more, then I will probably regret not making the choice to simply go with a better car (Cobalt SS). So as I've said time and time again, if I had a lot of money to blow, I'm just going to be in a better car. I'm sorry if you fail to grasp this point. Now as I understand it, most people that own cavaliers have bought them because it is a great bang for your buck. It's no big mystery why the cavy is such a great seller when it is so far behind in advancements when compared to other sport compacts. It sells because of PRICE! Taking this into consideration (come on Craig, use common sense) most of these people in this forum are on somewhat limited funds (maybe there are a handful that are loaded). So for them to go and blow over 4 grand on buying and installing your kit, I'd imagine that they'd feel the pinch in their pocket for a while. Now it's not to say that those people who are blowing money on your kits are idiots, it's just that they are impatient and are dying for a boost in power. Even 04 ecoLS sport (who is supporting you) is indirectly agreeing with me b/c he is waiting for GM's charger. I honestly think that RSM is taking advantage of the fact that they have the only eco charger. As I've said before, let's see what you do when the GM one comes out. If it comes out and costs 2500, then I'll bet that will get your attention because your sales will go right through the floor.
Quote:
A proctologist...... ohhh that's rich.
Quote:
I want Tim Hortons
Proctologist? Tim Horton's? Craig, maybe he wants to "Roll-up your rim to win!"
I live my life a 1/4 mile at a time and for those 15 seconds, I realize, I need boost.
Hey Craig,
I am still waiting to see that itemized list of how you arrive at 3900 for a price. Why don't you put your money (which you now have a ton of because of raping people) where your mouth is and show us that list. That is my challenge to you. It would be nice so that other people on here can evaluate it. If you don't produce that list, you just proved my point for me. So put up or shut up my friend. If you decide not to put up the list, then fine. I will retire from this discussion with the satisfaction of exposing you for the con artist you are.
ywlssport 02 wrote:Hey Craig,
I am still waiting to see that itemized list of how you arrive at 3900 for a price. Why don't you put your money (which you now have a ton of because of raping people) where your mouth is and show us that list. That is my challenge to you. It would be nice so that other people on here can evaluate it. If you don't produce that list, you just proved my point for me. So put up or shut up my friend. If you decide not to put up the list, then fine. I will retire from this discussion with the satisfaction of exposing you for the con artist you are.
That's such a ludcrist thing to do, declaring someone is ripping people off because they won't post an internal cost list and then saying you proved your point. I don't think any aftermarket supplier or company for that matter would do that, Garrett, Paxton, Vortec, go ask GM to post what it costs them for your Cavalier - bet its WAY less than $17,000.
Plus and the end of the day, he could put whatever he wants and who would you be to dispute it.
Go back to invading people's butt holes Procto Boy.
I live my life a 1/4 mile at a time and for those 15 seconds, I realize, I need boost.
I'll be ordering my RSM kit within the next few days so I'm going to have to side with those guys. To be quite honest when you get down to final cost after everything is on and installed its the same anyway whether it be a turbo or a gm supercharger.
As far as the ecotec gm supercharger I really have to laugh about this anytime someone posts about it. How stupid are you to even think its going to happen or within your car's useable lifetime? What was it supposed to be out like 2 years ago or something, whats the latest date now summer? When it does come out it, if that ever happens it will be around 3500, not sure where your getting 2700 from, not even a decent turbo kit is that cheap. Realistically you might even see the GM kit being more than the RSM, if it ever comes out. Don't know about you but I dont feel like waiting another 2 years. Also the boost on this kit is going to be very minimal prob only around 6psi or so. I'd bet a case of my finest Live wire it never happens this year at all.
Turbos require too much tuning and adjustment and if you do things right you go through almost a grand in engine management. I really dont see how you would have anything that nice for under 3k. Remember you get what you pay for, you buy some used or refurbished turbo, or have a cruddy install and end up breaking stuff because you THINK you know what your doing.
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
02ecogase wrote:ywlssport 02 wrote:Hey Craig,
I am still waiting to see that itemized list of how you arrive at 3900 for a price. Why don't you put your money (which you now have a ton of because of raping people) where your mouth is and show us that list. That is my challenge to you. It would be nice so that other people on here can evaluate it. If you don't produce that list, you just proved my point for me. So put up or shut up my friend. If you decide not to put up the list, then fine. I will retire from this discussion with the satisfaction of exposing you for the con artist you are.
That's such a ludcrist thing to do, declaring someone is ripping people off because they won't post an internal cost list and then saying you proved your point. I don't think any aftermarket supplier or company for that matter would do that, Garrett, Paxton, Vortec, go ask GM to post what it costs them for your Cavalier - bet its WAY less than $17,000. Plus and the end of the day, he could put whatever he wants and who would you be to dispute it.
Go back to invading people's butt holes Procto Boy.
I asked him for that list a long time ago fool. Keep your mouth shut if you are not paying attention. How is it ludacris? When you go and buy a brand new vehicle, there is an itemized list of what it costs for different options on that vehicle. There are way too many components to individually list. Craig keeps telling me that his price is reasonalbe. All I am asking is for him to prove it. If he doesn't, then it probably means he's hiding something or just doesn't have the time. My guess is that he's hiding something because he sure has the time to look at this forum on a regular basis. As far as "who am I to dispute it", well I tell you who: the guy shelling out the money to buy the damn kit.
PS: Your comments about my car don't really bother me because it's paid off. As far as itemized lists go, did you happen to read the fine print on your car (the glorious Grand Am SE 4cyl) when you bought it? Well if you didn't, then scroll down to see what it was:
Grand Am Se demographics show favorable purchase amongst women aged 35-50.
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH!! Now that's goddamn funny!
LOL
I would definitly like to see an itemized list, I mean you can look at a turbo kit and easily figure out what parts cost what with some common knowledge.
I am guessing the labor is the most expensive thing in that kit along with the charger
LE61T PTE6262 Powered
Oh man you make no sense at all. I dunno where you get your demographic info from, but you are truly a tool.
Companies post what its gonna cost you, not net costs. I'd like to see what j-body demos are, in the end it doesn't matter what GM target and what tuners do is two completely different things.
Are you gonna tell me next that a Honda Civic, one of the most modded cars out there is targeted and ONLY young men, I doubt it, it has a huge female market, as do Cavaliers.
Don't start demographics with me meathead, I work with them for a living in advertising and GM is our biggest client. Last time I looked at the marketing directive from their Canadian advertising agency, the Cavalier has a young female skew.
Its the tuner market that is 18-34 year old males, regardless of the vehicle. Go back to sticking you head up people's arses procto boy.
I live my life a 1/4 mile at a time and for those 15 seconds, I realize, I need boost.
02ecogase wrote:Oh man you make no sense at all. I dunno where you get your demographic info from, but you are truly a tool.
Companies post what its gonna cost you, not net costs. I'd like to see what j-body demos are, in the end it doesn't matter what GM target and what tuners do is two completely different things.
Are you gonna tell me next that a Honda Civic, one of the most modded cars out there is targeted and ONLY young men, I doubt it, it has a huge female market, as do Cavaliers.
Don't start demographics with me meathead, I work with them for a living in advertising and GM is our biggest client. Last time I looked at the marketing directive from their Canadian advertising agency, the Cavalier has a young female skew.
Its the tuner market that is 18-34 year old males, regardless of the vehicle. Go back to sticking you head up people's arses procto boy.
You know, I was going to let this whole thing go, but you just invite me to pummel you some more and I can't resist. I'll agree with you that cavaliers have a big female base, even though you are a canadian and I am an american (markets may be different). However, I seriously think you need to work on your skills in demographics a bit more. I shouldn't be teaching you this stuff, afterall all I know about is how to work on people's a-holes
Anyway, here is a short lesson for you dummy:
Go look up what kind of people own Grand Am Se's. Notice I'm being specific here. Not GT's (because those are actually cool), but SE's. You'll see that my previous commnet was correct.
Go look up what kind of people own Z24's as opposed to regular cavs. I think your story will change. Granted that there is still a significant female base for both, but the Z24 definitely has a far greater portion of young males 18-34.
Please continue enjoying paying for and driving your 40 year old divorced angry woman car.
^^^ needs to get a life.
look u didnt buy the rsm charger and u don't want it, ok there are people that want it and are willing to pay for what they want.
so drop it its getting old and noone cares about your opinion
Interesting that you use the word "pummel" and "@!#$s" in the same paragraph, maybe its something you like to do in your spare time.
But if you must know, Z24 & GAGT's are not heavily skewed to a male consumer, 54% for the Z24 and 56% for the GAGT.
SE versions are 53% female/47% male in the 25-44 age demographic, similar for Cavaliers but much younger. It may seem this way because everyone in forums like this are predominantly male.
Now before you jerk yourself silly all over the screen thinking you right, any type of skew under 60% doesn't make an advertiser target their campaing at one gender versus the other. Ask anyone in any marketing position.
Plus, GM doesn't market MOST vehicles by model, (Z24, GAGT), its by brand & nameplate (Chevrolet Cavalier, Pontiac Grand AM).
Mind you the above is pointless, I could give endless data from GM's ad agency and marketing people but you would still find a way to disagree and tell me and probably tell GM their wrong too.
Even if Craig posts everything you have asked him and everything is legit, you'd still find a way to argue it, personally I would give you the time of day. Why don't you simply call Craig and ask him straight up and post your conversation if its that important to you.
I can see a lot of your patients when you do become a butt doctor seeking second opinions.
I live my life a 1/4 mile at a time and for those 15 seconds, I realize, I need boost.
quickBOOSTEDecotec wrote:yes but an intercooler and fuel mods cost 400 bucks lol
now thats funny
4 injectors will cost around 180 (ill go on the low side) , a good intercooler (new) 250-500
then you still have to add something to help control the larger injectors , and you will need some one to fabricate the pipes (also purchase the pipes) and weld them up and pressure test them to make sure they are sealed
plus more t-bolt clams and silicone connectors
craig the guy is amusing , for a dumb ass
LOL
Plus, GM doesn't market MOST vehicles by model, (Z24, GAGT), its by brand & nameplate (Chevrolet Cavalier, Pontiac Grand AM).
Haha, I am well aware of this dummy. You missed my point. It is simply that Grand Am Se's are predominantly females who are 35-50. I wasn't speaking of the cars in general. I did find it amusing though that you had to go look a bunch of stuff up. Always good for a laugh. Dude, u need to just give up.
As for black03coupe, again another person who feels the need to open their mouth when they have no clue what is going on. This conversation was over a long time ago, but the post get's fired up when they start slinging mud. I only respond to entertain myself by toying with these idiots. Craig obviously has no solid defense for his prices, so we'll leave it at that. Discussion over.
Quote:
It is simply that Grand Am Se's are predominantly females who are 35-50.
Ok, if you know this then prove it, its just your speculation, as is the rest of the crap you sling. I look at data from GM & their ad agency all the time that says otherwise, you have no clue what you're talking about and I have no idea where you get your info from.
Quote:
I did find it amusing though that you had to go look a bunch of stuff up. Always good for a laugh. Dude, u need to just give up.
Based on what I do for a living and GM being one of our biggest advertisers, its common knowledge for me, something of which you have none of.
I live my life a 1/4 mile at a time and for those 15 seconds, I realize, I need boost.
i find it funny that im a person who feels the need to open my mouth, yet you can shut yours.
get a life
02ecogase wrote:Quote:
It is simply that Grand Am Se's are predominantly females who are 35-50.
Ok, if you know this then prove it, its just your speculation, as is the rest of the crap you sling. I look at data from GM & their ad agency all the time that says otherwise, you have no clue what you're talking about and I have no idea where you get your info from.
Quote:
I did find it amusing though that you had to go look a bunch of stuff up. Always good for a laugh. Dude, u need to just give up.
Based on what I do for a living and GM being one of our biggest advertisers, its common knowledge for me, something of which you have none of.
Hey, just so you know......
CANADA BLOWS!!!!!
.....except Toronto and Montreal.
Speculation eh, well find some people who disagree with my statement about GA se's PS..... I don't know if you went to college or not (it doesn't matter), but let me teach you an interesting little tid bit: There is absolutely no need to cite information when it is common knowledge. The fact that your car is driven by women aged 35-50 is very common knowledge. Most in here would agree. Go put that in your advertising book
Quote:
Speculation eh, well find some people who disagree with my statement about GA se's PS..... I don't know if you went to college or not (it doesn't matter), but let me teach you an interesting little tid bit: There is absolutely no need to cite information when it is common knowledge. The fact that your car is driven by women aged 35-50 is very common knowledge.
Well then you must be right and the millions GM spends on marketing research and tracking data is all wrong. Once again you are right, all of GM, the JBO and the whole world is wrong but of course you have common knowledge, which of course, in your eyes, is right.
You keep asking people, myself, Craig and others in this thread to go find stuff or post things after making statements you can't prove yourself when you have proven nothing, other than I think everyone here thinks you're a tool.
You'd make a good doctor, you always think you're right and what nobody else says matters.
I live my life a 1/4 mile at a time and for those 15 seconds, I realize, I need boost.
And the Canada blows comment, whether anyone here is from Toronto or Montreal or not, I doubt were really offended, especially coming from individuals like yourself. C'mon if you're gonna hurt my feelings try to come up with something more creative, every Canadian reading your comment is laughing their ass off at you, probably some of your country men too..
I live my life a 1/4 mile at a time and for those 15 seconds, I realize, I need boost.
Heres a part list for you straight off vortech's site
Vortech V9 Supercharger 1900
Vortech Blow off valve 240
Vortech Pulley 120
Supercharger Belt 40
K&N Cone Filter 40
Couplers (Theres 2 of them) 80 (Price from atpturbo.com which is for silicon connectors) RSM uses thermoflex I believe
Vortech Oil Feed Fitting Assembly 50
62mm Throttle body (this was something they have offered in the past with the kit and I think that they still do) 210
Piping not much here just a custom welded on bov fitting still some cost in welding it
Vacum lines
Brackets (These are custom parts made by RSM to accomodate the Vortech to the Ecotec)
In the past I believe these were CNC directly at the RSM shop from billet. Either way when your custom making a part from a chunk of metal theres some production and development cost there so yea gotta figure it takes at least a few hours to machine one and paying a skilled technician or using a uber expensive machine to do it theres some cost
ECU reprogram, basically this is turning your stock ECU into a stand alone and how it works is really cool. There is no tuning required unlike a turbo. That saves you some money on the dyno. Basically its like having a new ecu or a chip upgrade which in almost any case runs about 300 bucks, dont believe me ask ase chips or hypertech or gm to do a program for you
RSM's labor cost of putting this together and staffing as well as thier cost of shipping in all these items from thier distributors. WIth all this stuff added up your damn close to 3000, so by selling it at 3900 they arent even making a 25% profit on this item. Take for instance your car GM makes far more than %25 on that. With the sale they are running right now the item is not all that far above thier cost.
Now take a turbo for instance to get the same performance at 6-8 psi
Turbo, you need at least the top of the line T3 thats 600 or more brand new
Manifold $300 if you get a decent one that wont crack even the exploited is more expensive than the figure I list, the cavy connection is prob the best and thats 400 or more (not needed by a supercharger)
Downpipe most shops prob wouldn't charge more than 40 bucks to make one for you (again not needed for a supercharger)
Charge piping is going to be about 100, theres labor in making it and its always a custom job so thats $$$ (not something needed by the rsm cause you only have a 1 foot section thats straight)
Intercooler 300 for a decent one, not needed with a vortech because it doesnt heat up the air more than 5-10 degrees than what it starts with
Bigger Injectors 300 - Not something you need with the rsm cause they can just lengthen the pulse signal
Greddy Emanage with pressure sensor 400 - this is the only decent form of fuel management for a turbo or it could be 800 if you wanted the SDS EIC, and no using an FMU is not an acceptable form of fuel management its crude and the cheap mans way and you will end up needing an apexi to straighten out its poor fuel curve which in the end you would just aviod by getting an emanage in the first place
Oil lines
Fuel lines
Turbo Timer - dont reallly need one but alot say you should have it, also not something needed with a supercharger
An EGT or wideband 02 sensor, its the only way of knowing on a turbo how things are 400
Blow off Valve - 170 - most prob even spend more on this
Couplers - You will need alot more than 2 prob at least 4 so thats almost 160 there
Then you have to tune the thing with involves constant monkeying and not all of us own a dyno ( once again not an issue with the supercharger because it tunes itself)
I dont know you add all that stuff up and really I don't see where the turbo comes out so much cheaper. Of course this is assuming you do it right using quality parts which the JBO never does. Everyone here wants a quick fix. Im sure that i might be a little off on some figures but not enough to disprove my point that RSM's markup and what they sell the kit for is by no means unreasonable and its actually quite reasonable.
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
^^^^^^^^ good job on the list
the comment about canada mad me laugh , LOL
even i would have taken offence from it if was some one with more sense
all the people i know from canada are really cool people
matt yor turbo couplers are WAY off, like I said you need 6 - 7 straights and thats only maybe 60 bucks
LE61T PTE6262 Powered
