blu's 04 Supercharged Cavalier build - Page 3 - Photos & Media Forum

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Re: blu's 04 Supercharged Cavalier build
Friday, May 17, 2013 6:10 AM
Josh: yeah its not fun. In one sense I love seeing my motor all apart now. I learned a lot tearing it down but wish it was on better circumstances..like a seperately purchases motor that i was going to build on the side. I could hear pieces in my exhaust and was trying to figure out how a piece of metal got into my resonator, it was annoying at idle.

Philly: I have 3 choices (well theres 4, but I wont go that far yet)
1. get a good running decent mileage Ecotec, swap it in, bolt on my parts and be where I was before the bad ringland with quality parts on a fully stock engine thats waiting to end its own life like this one.
2. get a good running decent mileage Ecotec, utilize the stock bottom end, toss on a ported head, drop in my cams and valve springs, and have it retuned and running even better and enjoy it until the bottom end (rods) cant keep up.
3. get a project motor, LSJ, Ecotec, etc, fully build it from the bottom up to handle 500+hp and shoot for a goal of 400fwhp minimum with a TVS keeping the motor well within its limits and being able to hammer on it for years without worries.
4. sell the pile of metal, both m62's, spare hoods, new tires/wheels, extra sets of wheel and tires, drag wheels/tires, ALL stock parts, and anything related to the cavy, put 4-5k in my pocket, and move on.

I dont like 4. I like my cavalier. ive driven and been in some very fast newer cars and i would rather have my cavalier. its grown on me. i still want a RWD monster someday as well, but i would love a fully built V8 killer, FWD monster as well thats able to be daily driven. this may just be my excuse lol.

that means, shop for quality motor parts bottom up, shop for front end upgrades, axles, joints, anything breakable, etc, and really get it prepped for a built motor in the mean time.


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

Re: blu's 04 Supercharged Cavalier build
Friday, May 17, 2013 7:20 AM
OUCH! Like said at least it was epic devastation. As much as I'd love to see a nice eco build, I vote for finding a decent donor motor and swapping it in. Then continue with your original plan and start building one when you have time/money. I know it sucks and feels like your taking a step back but if you're trying to save for a house then it's by far the best option. L61s can be had pretty cheap in good working order. Otherwise you'd be rushing a build that you want to take your time on; that's always a recipe for disaster.



"In Oldskool we trust"
Re: blu's 04 Supercharged Cavalier build
Friday, May 17, 2013 8:45 AM
yeah this is true. after all this work, im sure swapping now is as easy as doing an oil change and more time consuming than anything.
we'll see what i do. but i am content now on doing a fully built motor to support a TVS setup. perhaps in the mean time it is better to put another L61 in, ensure my IATs and other critical variables are kept well monitored and simply have fun while my other build is in progress. after all, a proper build at minimum takes months just parts collecting and preparing the build set up.

Basically with my IC pump failing on me the Sunday prior to tuning it, Im guessing my IATs got so hot it finally was the straw that broke the camels back. I was running it HARD and even quite a few full pulls against my friends well built C5 vette after a long day of back country hooning. When I got home that was when i noticed my IC pump had failed probably a day or two prior. Though my oil level was good, i heard ticking after a long run once or twice. once it rested for a minute it'd go away. Ive had that pinging sound (someone said like marbles in a tin can lol) on occasion too, off and on breifly under initial load sometimes. after the tune the night before it blew, that pinging sound was prominent constantly under any heavy throttle until i let off. then the next day driving near my work (on base) i downshifted just to exit and thats when it happened, trying to exit. I wasnt even on it at all.

my guess, IC pump failed, it was pretty warm out, Im on the 2.8" pulley with no phenolic spacers or meth, IATs got too high, leaned out, preignition happened, and kapow!


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.
Re: blu's 04 Supercharged Cavalier build
Friday, May 17, 2013 9:21 AM
Any time - and I mean ANY time - that you ever hear marbles in a tin can under your hood you let the eff off and pull over. The eco is a stout motor when it comes to this which is why you got away with it happening a few times before it finally let go...

It is good to see that it is limited to the one cylinder, if you find the bottom end is good my advice would be to use this as your build up motor and pick up a good junkyard motor for $350 and drop it in and learn from the experience while you slowly build up the original.

This is why I absolutely NEVER tune a car to be dependent on meth - I don't believe it it and I don't like the idea that the car is "on the edge" should the meth run out or stop working. This is also why any car with a meth kit needs 2 LED's in it - one to show that the pump is firing and one for low-fluid. Those 2 failsafes would have saved you some trouble at this point.

Don't take this as preaching - hell I've blown up a BUILT motor - but it's something you should consider going forward if you do drop in another engine quickly to keep enjoying the car.

I'll be watching this thread to see what route you go and how the project goes!

-Chris-



-Sweetness-
-Turbocharged-
Slowly but surely may some day win this race...
Re: blu's 04 Supercharged Cavalier build
Friday, May 17, 2013 10:14 AM
^^he doesn't have meth installed. Just a tune that I feel wasn't complete enough to be beating on the motor or going wot.

Swapping a Eco out is very easy. In a day you can have the old one out and the parts swapped over to the new one and back in and running. 2 days if your taking your time and it's a first time.

I think the last one I did took about 8hrs till it was running again.

As you know I vote for a mix of 1 and 2. With a little build spare motor thrown in. Once you buy your own place build a motor up.
Re: blu's 04 Supercharged Cavalier build
Friday, May 17, 2013 11:08 AM
Philly D wrote:^^he doesn't have meth installed. Just a tune that I feel wasn't complete enough to be beating on the motor or going wot.

Swapping a Eco out is very easy. In a day you can have the old one out and the parts swapped over to the new one and back in and running. 2 days if your taking your time and it's a first time.

I think the last one I did took about 8hrs till it was running again.

As you know I vote for a mix of 1 and 2. With a little build spare motor thrown in. Once you buy your own place build a motor up.


I just re read his posts and you're right I was mistaken, it was his heat exchanger pump that went out. Man.... if they are that flaky I'd still like an LED in the car showing it's doing its job!

I have had 2 people not listen to me and blow their engines up on a half tune... it's part of the reason I don't tune for others anymore.

Dredge up a good replacement motor and toss her in! It's a faster job than you think and then you get to take your time with this badboy when you have the chance and space.

-Chris-



-Sweetness-
-Turbocharged-
Slowly but surely may some day win this race...
Re: blu's 04 Supercharged Cavalier build
Friday, May 17, 2013 1:02 PM
Sweetness, you are absolutely right about the meth. the only thing I have yet to order for it that i have planned on doing so, was the indicators. I actually have one for the dash (amber) to notify me of the low meth level. I already installed the level sensor in the tank actually. I still need another for when the pump fails. (and a check valve).

I have a switch that will allow me to turn the IC pump on and off, but thats it. I wouldnt mind having one that indicates a pump failure, i agree that is a great tool to have.
Another method of that would be having an Aeroforce or something similar that reads IATs. If those are visible at all times then any time you see them go up you let off and if they get too high you pull over and investigate.

I do kind of like the idea of getting a good bottom end, and dropping it in unmolested. Then putting a ported head on with my cams and valve springs, and just having my tuner get it dialed in perfectly. this should be a nice fairly safe set up and without being super rich or have a failing ic pump, i should be able to avoid carnage. then as stated, building an engine over time would be more ideal. Unless something unforseen comes up in the future, I plan on making it a goal to get my underdog cavalier in the top ranks with a blower.

I will still probably run meth, but i may either do full water or a higher mixture of water to meth resulting in more cooling vs power adder. even without meth and a ported head and cams, ported blower, big tb, and good tune it'll smoke a lot of competition out there and get me into my 12s goal.

I too will be watching this thread to see what direction the OP goes with it...


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.
Re: blu's 04 Supercharged Cavalier build
Friday, May 17, 2013 1:06 PM
Y3llowCav wrote:OUCH! Like said at least it was epic devastation. As much as I'd love to see a nice eco build, I vote for finding a decent donor motor and swapping it in. Then continue with your original plan and start building one when you have time/money. I know it sucks and feels like your taking a step back but if you're trying to save for a house then it's by far the best option. L61s can be had pretty cheap in good working order. Otherwise you'd be rushing a build that you want to take your time on; that's always a recipe for disaster.


i agree with everything except it feeling like a step back...it would actually just be a 'lesson learned' with a slight step forward still, the one i was about to take anyways. i wouldnt need to buy anything but a built/ported head (and various gaskets now for my exhaust manifold, head, etc). this route is not too expensive and would allow me to not move backwards (detune basically).


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.
Re: blu's 04 Supercharged Cavalier build
Friday, May 17, 2013 1:09 PM
Philly, btw....when you did your swap did you have a 5spd or auto, unbolt the tranny from the motor and pull the motor out the top or tranny+ motor out the bottom?
Before i complete this build since the tranny has to come off anyways, Im thinking Im going to invest in a nice clutch set up too while im in there. My stage2 Bahnhof i think is slipping despite its power rating at about 280hp. It was slipping under WOT shifting gears after the tune that night. so maybe my power was higher than i expected, or the clutch was just failing with just a year of use on it.


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.
Re: blu's 04 Supercharged Cavalier build
Friday, May 17, 2013 3:56 PM
Ive only changed the motors out with 5spds.

I pull them out the top all in one piece. It does take a bit of wrangling to get it out since you have to really get the pass side up and the drivers side down but i find it easy. I also found unbolting the master cyl from the brake booster help give more room.

I always tackle it in a way to get it out of the car as fast as I can and then its easier to work on. That being said I havent done it with the charger on....may have to bolt that on once the new motor is in the bay.

One piece of advice...If your going to port a head and dont have one yet.....get a LSJ head.
Re: blu's 04 Supercharged Cavalier build
Friday, May 17, 2013 5:15 PM
I vote as well on getting a stock junkyard motor and putting that in while you build up the block in the car now. Also, that bracket on the side of the motor you can use a gear wrench in there and swing it out of the way if need be. I put a jack under the pan and lift it up some to get clearance.

Judging by pics, you need to pull motor no matter what. Best idea is to swap one in, gather parts while you can still drive the car and enjoy it.




Re: blu's 04 Supercharged Cavalier build
Friday, May 17, 2013 9:23 PM
youre both prob right.
time to shop for a low mileage used L61! And as far as the LSJ head, I need to find a thread with info on exactly how to prepare it. I don't weld and would prefer not tapping into factory wiring anymore than I already have (like for the TMAP).
This might also make a good time to do a wire tuck and engine bay clean up..seeing as there will be no motor..though it'll be tougher to gauge where everything needs to be exactly, lengthwise...


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.
Re: blu's 04 Supercharged Cavalier build
Friday, May 17, 2013 9:30 PM
There is no welding involved. No wiring involved. There is a oil port to block and if you want to avoid pcv issues since our blowers check valve likes to mess up you can block that port.

But really just slap a motor in it....make it run and port a lsj head for later
Re: blu's 04 Supercharged Cavalier build
Friday, May 17, 2013 9:30 PM
I did the lsj head. What would you like to know on how to prepare it?





Re: blu's 04 Supercharged Cavalier build
Friday, May 17, 2013 11:07 PM
EVERYTHING LOL





Re: blu's 04 Supercharged Cavalier build
Saturday, May 18, 2013 5:28 AM
To use the LSJ head on an ecotec.... Bolt it on... Thats it. Now to use an LSJ head with the L61 cams, you have to plug one oil galley that is really small and basically the journal thats open if you use L61 cams and then you have to make a block off plate at the end of the head where the sensor hangs(opposite of the power steering). Thats it. Get the LSJ plugs and call it a day. You will have to mod the coil pack unless you wire it for wasted spark and run coil packs and wires. You will also need the valve cover that goes with the head. Other than that its straight forward bolt on affair. A nice healthy port and polish cant hurt either. They are a much stronger and better cast head.



Re: blu's 04 Supercharged Cavalier build
Saturday, May 18, 2013 1:42 PM
Matt got with me on FB. he explained everything, pretty much exactly what you're saying.
Im going to do that, ive decided. L61 bottom end, LSJ top end and make the necessary mods.

Im still debating what to do about cams. I like the idea of just using LSJ cams. But if I want to upgrade those, Ill need to shop around for a good blower cam. Maybe troll the CSS.net forum and see whats for sale and what those guys have tried/tested with their s/c setups.

Prob keep the forward coolant temp sensor for a gauge ive already got in my car that's not plugged in (one those mini tri-gauge pods I was using for the mechanical oil psi temporarily).

I also may use this time to relocate my battery...install my CA's, tie rods, end links, kbrace, and possibly build some custom brake cooling ducts that ive researched quite a bit on.
I also need some trans mounts since I think mine are shot. with the motor out, that should be cake lol

I guess this wasn't all a waste...it gives me a chance to really know my car and get some other things done...at least that's what ill tell myself


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.
Re: blu's 04 Supercharged Cavalier build
Saturday, May 18, 2013 1:53 PM
Josh Meyers wrote:The EXACT same thing happened to my Cav on #3. The valves managed to grab the ring and all. My plug gap changed for the 2nd time and there were score marks on the ground strap. upon closer examination, you could hear a piece of the ring ticking against the turbo.



You're not alone, bro!


oh and Josh, good show!
im honestly not mad at all. Im proud of what my little L61 has accomplished in full stock form on a motor that was not intended for boosted applications, not the power we desire anyways.
im glad to have the opportunity to get to know my engine really well now, not to mention having a community of enthusiasts that have been there and done that and provide quality assistance. if ya'll were in TX id def happily provide the beer to sit and discuss carnage stories


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.
Re: blu's 04 Supercharged Cavalier build
Saturday, May 18, 2013 2:26 PM
If your going to go through the work of putting the lsj head on change your timing set while your in there.

The stock LSJ cams are better suited for blower than our stockers are. Most guys on CSS use ZZP stage 1 or 2 blower cams. Keep in mind your tune will have to change a fair bit since the cams are completely different.
Re: blu's 04 Supercharged Cavalier build
Tuesday, July 02, 2013 7:09 AM
Well the LSJ (complete) is on its way as of 12 July. So now all I can do is wait and gather materials needed for the swap.

Still debating on the cams to use, but I may just keep it stock other than a mild port job to help it breathe a bit more. With a ported blower, larger tb, adequate cooling, 2.8" pulley, and meth, Im hoping to be just below the 300whp mark with a less conservative tune (now that the motor can handle the power). Im also still trying to pick up my friends WS6 so Im not planning on putting too much more into the Cavalier as it will still be my daily driver (that can spank most stock and lightly modded V8's lol).

I do also need to get the Kbrace, aluminum control arms (with poly bushings), z24 fog lights, methenol set up, rear battery relocation, and a few other things all installed. I have it all, just havent had the desire lately to work on it as its sitting in a garage on jack stands.

I did also pick up a like-new set of 99 C5 corvette seats my friend was selling, he gave me a good price. They are mint and simply awesome, even compared to my leather SS seats. Taller but narrower (better lumbar). The only downside is they are not even close to the same bracket dimensions or location. So Ill either need to fab up a custom bracket or remove the seats and mount them on the cavalier seats some how...but since the driver side is power i may just drill into my floorpan and mount them that way. Oh and one other downside, leather sucks in the back roads on the twisties, but who cares when you've got nice vette seats?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, July 02, 2013 7:11 AM

04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.
Re: blu's 04 Supercharged Cavalier build
Wednesday, July 03, 2013 6:08 AM
Awesome to hear your still at it. So are you going to do the P12 PCM swap too? Assuming it gets figured out over on the tuning section? Thus will allowing you to tune freely?


GMR has got nothing on this

Re: blu's 04 Supercharged Cavalier build
Wednesday, July 03, 2013 11:45 AM
yup, just a waiting game really. Im probably going to just keep it a fairly stock LSJ though and hold off on the build I was thinking about doing. With a good tune she should hold her own quite well.
tuning will be just fine on the cav ECU/harness, no need to swap. i already have an 05 ECU with HPTuners on it that should suffice.

Ive already got a good idea what to do with the LSJ down the road if i plan on building further...but Ive got another toy Ive been waiting on for months now that will take the place of the cav for weekend fun (if I can ever get the damn thing), while having the cavalier as an underestimated commuter. Im tired of driving my truck (tired of putting miles on it), so i want my cav back on the road!!


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.
Re: blu's 04 Supercharged Cavalier build
Saturday, July 13, 2013 1:52 PM
At this point, its just a waiting game...LSJ is shipped (as of yesterday) and should be here Thursday. Going to pick up an engine hoist and a stand.
For the LSJ swap, I am working on locating the trigger wheel and transmission spacer/adapter (got a friend at a Chevy dealership that will hook me up), LSJ head gasket (might as well drop a new one in), maybe some new intake manifold bolts and head bolts? prob not needed but..eh

Ive got a complete rear disc swap on its way.
Ive already received my LSJ clutch/flywheel/pressure late (thanks monograt!).
Ive receivd an LS Sport rear lip (00-02 version since I don't want to replace my bumper and arrival blue 03-05 LSS's are hard to find).

So in the cavs near future this is whats going in (as a recap) and its stuff I already have or is in the mail;
1. Saturn disc swap (rear)
2. GA GT aluminum control arms, poly bushings, brand new inner/outer tie rods, end links with poly bushings
3. TTR Kbrace
4. Devils Own methanol injection
5. LSJ motor
6. 99 C5 corvette ebony leather seats (mint condition!)


I think Im missing some things but parents are in town so I haven't worked in the garage for a few weeks. when all is said and done ive got quite a bit to upgrade/install. Lots of work to do in the very near future!


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.
Re: blu's 04 Supercharged Cavalier build
Saturday, July 13, 2013 2:41 PM
Quote:

if they are that flaky I'd still like an LED in the car showing it's doing its job!


I have a LED in my car letting me know it is working.



FU Tuning



Re: blu's 04 Supercharged Cavalier build
Wednesday, July 17, 2013 9:35 PM
So got some new pics to toss on here and also...I got called today when I was at work that a package came in two days early!
My 2001 Camaro SS seats (driver side only) is showing a lot of wear..costs way too much to reupholster the seat in ebony leather..so I gotta fab up some brackets so I can use the 99 C5 vette seats I bought off my friend.
LSJ clutch set up with low mileage
Saturn rear disc swap (not sure what else I need here..ill worry about it in a few weeks)
and of course...the motor

I ordered a brand new head gasket just for fun today since I don't know this one's condition. also ordered the transmission spacer for the LSJ so it'll mate up to my L61 F23. Im also buying the LNF throwout bearing/slave but I wanted to check squirrels build and see if I needed anything besides the slave part (I can get it at the dealer for about $60 brand new).
Still trying to track down the trigger wheel...one 'may not be perfect', another is only the trigger and needs a bracket, but I was provided a website to buy one but never got a response back from the site on a price (which shows it would prob take weeks to ship if they cant even respond to an email).

so she's in progress....
















04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.
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