some progress info on the V6 swap - Third Generation Forum

Forum Post / Reply
You must log in before you can post or reply to messages.
some progress info on the V6 swap
Saturday, April 15, 2006 3:27 PM
I just thought I'd post a little info on the progress I've been making with the V6 swap. I had a long period of time that I didn't have the time to work on it, so I'm a lot further behind than I'd like to be, but it's getting pretty close to done.

The wiring, of course, is the most difficult/time consuming part of the swap.

Just a recap, for those who haven't been following the 3400 swap posted by Mr. Goodwrench, I'm using a 2002 engine, with the upper motor mount parts from a 94-97 Grand Am 3100. These pieces bolt right into the factory upper motor mount bracket on the J-Body. The computer and wiring harness I'm using is from a 94-95 F-Body (Camaro/Firebird) 3.4/5 speed.

I have had to swap out a few sensors to the F-Body (basicly the newer ODB II sensors needed to be swapped out for OBD I sensors), but otherwise, everything on the engine matches right up to the F-Body wiring/computer.

I'm very close to finishing the wiring harness, and when it's done, it will be integrated into the vehicle as a factory harness would.

Here is the spaghetti of the wiring harness. The biggest issue was that the wiring harness was from a RWD car, so a lot of the engine components were in completely different spots (for example, the throttle body and all related sensors are at the end of the block with the accessory belts on an F-Body, but on the transmission end in a FWD car). I've had to shorten some wires, and lengthen others. Also, the 3X00 engines have a secondary harness for the injectors, coolant temp sensor, and camsheft position sensor. I had to splice the 16 pin connector for these things onto the F-Body harness.


Here is the Grand Am mount up close. This picture does not have the upper rubber insert, or the cover on, but you can see how the mount bolts right up:






Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Saturday, April 15, 2006 4:08 PM
i want one!!!!





Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Saturday, April 15, 2006 9:23 PM
wow looks like alot of work, it will be nice when its done tho

ps. your drive side front tire is mounted the wrong way





Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Saturday, April 15, 2006 9:46 PM
Holy @!#$ thats insane.


- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new



Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Sunday, April 16, 2006 4:30 AM
newt wrote:

ps. your drive side front tire is mounted the wrong way

Yeah, gotta love that, huh? LOL...got a set of rims and tires, with three mounted for the left side of the car. They said they'd fix it for free, but I would have had to ship it back, so I'm just going to have it remounted locally before I put it back on the road.




Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Tuesday, April 18, 2006 11:01 AM
Alright, this will officially be my first post in well over a year. But, everyone seems to want to do this.



Yup, that's right. It runs, it drives, and it turns the rev limiter in 1st and 2nd gear into lots of tire smoke.

I'm running an ECU from a 91 Cav Z24. I have run into some issues. The ECU will not run my gauge cluster is a good start. The fuel gauge works, kinda. It's a guestimate at best. But at least I know when I need to get gas. No Speedometer, No Tach, No coolant temp. Another thing, the DRL's got stuck.... on..... all the time. Key out, engine off, brake on... the DRL's wouldnt shut off. Went on ny-jbodies and did the DRL bypass trick, BUT since the factory ECU isnt there, the DRLs still activate. So I unplugged the relay. Best bet is to still use the factory ECU and wire harness, for nothing more than to run your Gauges and DRL lights (or lack thereof) Also, in my case, the ECU that i'm using is too old. (or actually, I could swap the MEMCAL) It's for a 91, which has a cable operated speedometer, and way less PPM for the VSS than the 3rd gen. Meaning - you can hit the speed limiter, in 1st gear. ~20mph.

Due to some 'issues' with getting mine to work to perfection, i'm going to have to start over on the electrical, which yeah..... is a bitch. I'm pulling the entire harness. I'm going to a yard and pulling the engine harness and ECU from a 3rd gen 2.2 5spd (as I no longer have my ECU, and my harness is...... well, we'll just not discuss it. That will be installed, and then a standalone will be used for engine management. Even though I can get the OBD-I working the right way. One thing i'm hopeful for, is the fact that both the 2.2 and the 60degree use a 7x reluctor wheel for the crank sensor. I'm hoping that if the tach output is hooked to the factory ECU that it will pull back a reading on the factory tach.

BTW, once you get that 3400 going. The nicest thing is that in normal driving, it doesnt feel any different than when you had a 2.2 in there. A significant ammount of throttle later and you realize that it's not stock.




<img src ="http://www.j-body.org/registry/shooff/personal_pic.jpg">
Noise doesnt add horsepower. Horsepower adds noise.
"This is one 2.2 I wouldnt mess with" - DropTopPaul
Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Tuesday, April 18, 2006 4:30 PM
SHOoff, you can use the ECM and wiring harness from a 98 or later 3400 in your car and you should be able to eliminate the issues your having. The only thing you have to do is to have it reflashed to eliminate the auto tranny codes.

I won't be running into a lot of those problems because the 94-95 F-Body electronics are extremely close to the 95 J-Body. Also, I have the custom digital cluster that is programable to whatever sensors you are using.

I would seriously hit the salvage yard and get the electrical from a 98 or later 3X00 engine. It should integrate with your car much better than the 91 electronics.

Looks good in there though!





Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Tuesday, April 18, 2006 7:25 PM
I wanna think the 3400 came out in 01+, and they probably had a BCM to go along with it, making it harder for the gauges to work unless say an N-Body Gauge swap was in the works, or if the 00+ J-Body would work too.


Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:46 PM
hey sean
I was wondering if you was going to post it up sometime and i like the motor setting in here and I cant wait intill mine is in


Opening Soon Kustom J's

Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Wednesday, April 19, 2006 1:01 AM
wow, Sho, but you said....Awww, nevermind. DEA is starting to show it's true self in the world now.

BTW the motor looks awesome, too bad the Quad looks better



Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Wednesday, April 19, 2006 2:32 AM
Quiklilcav wrote:

SHOoff, you can use the ECM and wiring harness from a 98 or later 3400 in your car and you should be able to eliminate the issues your having. The only thing you have to do is to have it reflashed to eliminate the auto tranny codes.

I won't be running into a lot of those problems because the 94-95 F-Body electronics are extremely close to the 95 J-Body. Also, I have the custom digital cluster that is programable to whatever sensors you are using.

I would seriously hit the salvage yard and get the electrical from a 98 or later 3X00 engine. It should integrate with your car much better than the 91 electronics.

Looks good in there though!


Yeah, I know about all that stuff. I was just gonna get another Cav ECU and harness solely for the gauges, as I plan on going with a standalone anyways. Or, I could do it and use the 91 electronics. I'll just have to get a 93 MEMCAL (or burn one to the 93 program) so that the ECU sees the VSS properly. I like the idea of the standalone anyways.... that way I can sound cool in the rice world, and impress high school kids. I had considered the 3x00 ECU and upgrading myself to the 4t65e-HD ('tis whats in my GTP) and going that route... but again, i'm trying to keep cost down, and that's a lot of work. I thought about a custom cluster, but due to the cost involved, I decided not to.

After you get it running, you might wanna wear a rubber the first time you drive the car. It's quite an enjoyable experience. Question though, what did you do for the fuel lines? Did you replace them with something else, or just make a new bend?

Quote:

wow, Sho, but you said....Awww, nevermind. DEA is starting to show it's true self in the world now.

BTW the motor looks awesome, too bad the Quad looks better


Yeah, our board never gets a whole ton of posts. I think we're up to a total of 350 some now. So I finally broke down, and posted here again. After all the BS over the last year or so in life, I guess I can post here a bit more.

And, who cares if the Quad looks better, the 3400 is still faster.
And dont give me the boost lecture, I'll get some too, dont you worry.






Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Wednesday, April 19, 2006 11:08 AM
SHOoff wrote:

...Question though, what did you do for the fuel lines? Did you replace them with something else, or just make a new bend?

New lines, and new bends. I think I've spent more money in tools on this project than I have in parts. LOL. New engine hoise, leveler, tube flanging tools, bending tools, bigger sockets, I think I've lost count...

Other than that, every part that I've used so far is a GM part number. I was even thoroughly impressed that the F-Body ECM fits right into the plastic bracket to mount in the stock location. It's slightly bigger, and I was afraid that it was going to have to be relocated, or modify the mount on the car a little, but it looks like it belongs there.

I should have the wiring all wrapped up in the next week or so, and I'll post up more pictures of the progress. Let me tell you, it is very time consuming, especially when you get into splicing it to the car harness. Removing the ABS lines from the factory harness was fun, too.





Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Wednesday, April 19, 2006 11:37 AM
Quote:

I should have the wiring all wrapped up in the next week or so, and I'll post up more pictures of the progress. Let me tell you, it is very time consuming, especially when you get into splicing it to the car harness.


Yeah, make sure you put a bottle of asprin and a glass of water next to your wiring diagrams. Been there, wasn't real excited about it either. But, it's gotta be done.





Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Wednesday, April 19, 2006 1:20 PM
Ender_Wiggin wrote:

I wanna think the 3400 came out in 01+, and they probably had a BCM to go along with it, making it harder for the gauges to work unless say an N-Body Gauge swap was in the works, or if the 00+ J-Body would work too.

The 3400 came out in 98 in the Grand Am.




Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Wednesday, April 19, 2006 1:34 PM
Check out http://www.painlesswiring.com/ They will make you a custom ready-to-go harness for your specific application.. this place rocks.
drop it in, everything works, Even with a different ECU, jsut tell them what you got, and checnes are they can hook it up.





Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Wednesday, April 19, 2006 1:43 PM
The process is quite a bit harder than that. In order to have the proper length of wire they'd need to have a test vehicle. Lets just note that not everyone is 3x00 swapping the 3rd gen cav's.



Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Wednesday, April 19, 2006 2:11 PM
They make all the cables the proper length with the connectors already attached.. trust me, these guys can do it.

Just tell them the applicaiton, car, engine, etc, and they will give you a ready to drop in harness. they are not cheap, put the are perfect.




Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Wednesday, April 19, 2006 3:38 PM
Painless is an excellent company for stuff like this. The thing you have to do is to give them info like how long the main lead needs to be to the ECM, where the harness will come off the engine, etc., but yes, they can do it.

Also, say you splice a harness and make something that works, but isn't beautiful, or isn't an acceptable permanent harness, you can send them your hack job and they will build you the same thing with all new parts. I had this done on one of my old project vehicles, where I hacked up a harness to make it fit my vehicle, but it wasn't pretty. While the thing was getting painted, I sent out the harness and got back a custom made one.





Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Friday, April 21, 2006 12:06 AM
SHOoff wrote:

And, who cares if the Quad looks better, the 3400 is still faster.
And dont give me the boost lecture, I'll get some too, dont you worry.


With only a few more ponies and a LOT more motor weight, I think we're pretty well matched. Of course, we're going to have to test this theory. I think you will agree.





Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Friday, April 21, 2006 2:24 AM
I dont think it's really that much heavier. The car seems to drive and handle great with that under the hood. You cant tell it's there, like I've mentioned. Plus you have a Sunfire, i have the absolute base model cav. Even the lightest sunfire is still 60-70lbs heavier.

Sure we can test it. But keep in mind that i'm not tuned for that 3400. So if i'm faster, then sweet, if not then I'll make up some rice excuse for you.





Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Friday, April 21, 2006 11:23 AM
you bastard...




Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Friday, April 21, 2006 4:37 PM
Alright already...enough thread jacking.




Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Friday, April 21, 2006 11:35 PM
just discussing a v6 swap and it's advantages...or lack there of.

Nice motor BTW, The J should have come with the 3400 or the 3800sc in the GT or the Z24 options.

Please detail the swap as best as you can, as I may do a 3800SC swap in the future and the notes from a 3400 swap would be benificial.




Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Saturday, April 22, 2006 3:24 AM
I'd like to make a guide on how to do the 3400 swap. It would require some input as far as some pictures, and other information from other people that have done it (i dont think it's very many either)

I wish someone with the 3800SC swap was in the area. I'd like to compare how the 60 degree takes on the 90 degree V6 in a Cav. I'm thinking that the ammount of torque coming from the stock L67 would give it, in a j-body, a huge disadvantage off the line. I cant see it doing a whole lot more than spinning tires. Even if sitll mounted to the auto tranny.





Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Saturday, April 22, 2006 8:02 AM
Killllller pics. I did a V6 swap in my 2nd gen, i'm getting a 3rd gen veeeery soon. I'm going to get a Z24, sell the 2.3L and tranny and get a getrag. F the L67, they weigh as much as a small block. No J-body will ever handle very well with that much weight in there. RollinGTZ a buddy from bstuff has a 3800SC in his beretta and he's done allot of aftermarket to the suspension, and tried a few different struts, springs and spring wights and still doesn't do the best.


P0234- Only Code worth ever coming up on ur Scanner


www.sounddomain.com/id/935speedrs
Forum Post / Reply
You must log in before you can post or reply to messages.

 

Start New Topic Advanced Search