Wade Jarvis wrote:Well I finally understand what this adapter plate crap is all about. It seems you only get it with the GM kit and those who peice together a sc kit fro the balt or ion have to make their own since GM does not sell it by itself. I was thinking this whole time that the 03-05tb just bolted right onto the sc as there is no adapter plate needed for the 2.4 kit. As you can tell I am not a big eco expert.
However I think we would be best off to use the jbody 2.2 eco tb and plate. Are we in aggreement on this? The eco comes with a 60mm tb stock and that is bigger than my 58mm bored 2.4. So I could care less about keeping my 2.4tb. I can just sell it in the classifieds.
If you check the thread s1lver N1p posted I mentioned that Mike and Vulcan should get together and see what they can do to make this happen
I saw that thread before, but never really read it ( that whole LD9 vs Eco thing, LOL!! )
I agree with Wade in that the 2.2 L61 TB is the best route to go for the entry setup.
Jason
99 Z24 Supercharged
157hp/171tq - NA
190hp/170tq @ 6psi
LD9 for Life
Would someone be able to provide me a cable driven throttle body to use for making an adapter plate? Yes ideally the L61 throttle body would be best to use, but again that is electronically driven so it kind of rules itself out. Either this or we could use a throttle body off a impala or a car with a larger V6 engine?
The L61 throttle body
is cable driven. The LSJ is drive-by-wire.
Just make a simple adapter for the MP62 -> LD9 throttle body...
ahhh okay. The MP62 to LD9 will most likely be what we make.
I think you should also make an adapter for an lsx tb
I think an item that would make a transition to the MP62 manifold as smooth as possible would be the best interest of business... Having to buy a new throttle body along with the manifold seems like an expenditure that can be avoided and enable the many who have 62mm LD9 TBs to use them.
Doesn't really matter to me, I'm not buying one
I have to buy a bigger throttle body anyway. Mine is only 57mm so whether it is an LD9 or L61 it does not matter to me. I was only thinking L61 because it would help more people than those getting this kit.
Jason
99 Z24 Supercharged
157hp/171tq - NA
190hp/170tq @ 6psi
LD9 for Life
The MP62 supercharger has been shipped today to Vulcan Turbo, LLC.
Very few people have a 62mm 2.4tb. They were rare, sold for more than they were ever worth new, still sell for almost 200 bucks used and to top it off very few measure out at 62mm most measure at 60 or 61.
I was wrong when I said I have a 2.4 tb bored to 58 mm. Mine is only bored to 56mm I had my tb spacer bored to 58 so that is where I got that number from.
The advantages to the eco tb seem to be
1 Stock eco is bigger than a stock 2.4
2 It is my understanding that the eco can be bored out to a true 62mm
3 Would come closer to bolting up than the 2.4
4 Could use the gm adapter that comes with the GMPP m62 eco kit as a template for designing
5 Would help the 2.4 and eco people who need that part which in turn would be more profitable for Vulcan
Disadvantage
1 We would need to buy a eco tb
Vulcan has to make one either way so IMO might as well make one for the eco tb. I would think it should not be to difficult to find a stock 02-05 jbody eco tb for 50 bucks or under.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:29 AM
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
If you were to spin the M62 to 12K (which is its max recommened speed on a stock unit) then it would be trying to intake about 400 CFM's
according to this chart....
http://www.not2fast.com/gasflow/velocity.shtml
you find that intaking 400CFM's into a TB that is 57mm ( or 2.2458"), then the air velocity would be 272.6 Ft/sec which is acceptable. Corky Bell recommends intake velocities stay under 300 Ft/min, or the acceration of the air causes too much pressure drop. so, using the stock LD9 57mm TB, the drop would leave you with 97.095 KPA at sea level. Thats pretty good IMHO.
if you wanted to move upto the 61MM (2.4034") TB that was the other suggestion, it would speed to air upto 238 Ft/sec and blower inlet pressure would be 98.100 KPA.
so there is a gain to be had by going with the 61mm TB, but its negligable,. Probably not "required" and therefore not worth the extra expence. IMHO.
but, I wont be buying one either, so i dont care what yall decide. But, you should probably be researching this stuff scientifically instead of gut feelings.
M90'd Built LGO-15 PSI
http://webstarts.com/quadper4mance
Stock ld9 tb is 52mm, most of us with any form of modded ld9 wheather boosted or n/a have a larger than stock tb. IMO, there should be a few options as to which tb can be used and Im sure Vulcan could do it if they get the measurements with each tb. With that amount of money and some putting down down payments, I doubt theyd be mass producing these so they could make whatever adapter that person wanted.
I still say make one for an lsx tb as well
Nukkinfuttz wrote:If you were to spin the M62 to 12K (which is its max recommened speed on a stock unit) then it would be trying to intake about 400 CFM's
according to this chart.... http://www.not2fast.com/gasflow/velocity.shtml
you find that intaking 400CFM's into a TB that is 57mm ( or 2.2458"), then the air velocity would be 272.6 Ft/sec which is acceptable. Corky Bell recommends intake velocities stay under 300 Ft/min, or the acceration of the air causes too much pressure drop. so, using the stock LD9 57mm TB, the drop would leave you with 97.095 KPA at sea level. Thats pretty good IMHO.
if you wanted to move upto the 61MM (2.4034") TB that was the other suggestion, it would speed to air upto 238 Ft/sec and blower inlet pressure would be 98.100 KPA.
so there is a gain to be had by going with the 61mm TB, but its negligable,. Probably not "required" and therefore not worth the extra expence. IMHO.
but, I wont be buying one either, so i dont care what yall decide. But, you should probably be researching this stuff scientifically instead of gut feelings.
Thank you for posting the technical aspect of this. I was unaware of how to determine what size TB I should be going with.
The stock 2.4 is 52mm stock. Now I just need to know 100% for sure the size of the 02-05 jbody eco tb. I have heard conflicting reports although most say it is 58mm stock. I do know it can be bored to 62 without being sleeved so it looks as though the eco's 58-62mm range would be close to ideal.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:30 AM
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
I will be making the adapter for the 03-05 cavalier ecotec throttle body since it seems to be the best for this application. Larger than the factory LD9 and still cable driven.
So far one unit has been paid for in full, just looking for a minimum of one more at least! Also, i will need a 03-05 ecotec throttle body to use for our adapter plans.
Vulcan Turbo, LLC wrote:
So far one unit has been paid for in full, just looking for a minimum of one more at least! Also, i will need a 03-05 ecotec throttle body to use for our adapter plans.
I just bought a stock jbody eco tb from PJ our resident eco expert. He is going to be shipping it to you tomorrow. We are not sure exactly the diameter of the tb at the throttle plate as the tb has a taper from the inlet to the throttle plate but it is bigger than the stock 2.4
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, October 28, 2008 12:35 PM
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
its 60mm at the tb plates.
Wade Jarvis wrote:
Thank you for posting the technical aspect of this. I was unaware of how to determine what size TB I should be going with. .
No problem. These are the kinds of things that can make what should be a great system suck balls. I see most people just slap stuff together and hope for the best. But, you see there are also a few on here that really dig deep, and figure out all these little things so the system can work in harmony... and the results show. Im sure you've seen a couple of the guys with lesser systems beating out guys with what should be alot better systems. this is why. well, not just THIS. but figuring out all the science you can about your setup will show you were to spend your money for the BEST gains, and also show you what you dont need to spend on at the moment. When it all comes together, you'll know it. I encourage all of you F/I guys to get more involved in the science, rather than just throw parts at it.
Wade Jarvis wrote:The stock 2.4 is 52mm stock. Now I just need to know 100% for sure the size of the 02-05 jbody eco tb. I have heard conflicting reports although most say it is 58mm stock. I do know it can be bored to 62 without being sleeved so it looks as though the eco's 58-62mm range would be close to ideal.
sorry, i must have misread the LD9 stock size. so, the calculations need to be corrected. 52mm = 2.0488" so, according to the calculator above, this TB would accerate the air to 327.5 ft/sec. That is over the limit of 300, so we'll say that it is definately too small for this app. the pressure at the blower behind this TB would only be 95.218 KPA which is a significant loss.
so, the 61MM (2.4034") TB would be the way to go here becuase it would speed to air upto 238 Ft/sec and blower inlet pressure would be 98.100 KPA, thats making up for over half the loss. well worth it.
with this sytem, if you wanted the BEST choice, you should pick a 3.000" TB which would result in 152.7 ft/sec velocities and a blower inlet pressure of 99.997 KPA. anything bigger is a waste, it wont do anything.
M90'd Built LGO-15 PSI
http://webstarts.com/quadper4mance
Nukkinfuttz wrote:
with this sytem, if you wanted the BEST choice, you should pick a 3.000" TB which would result in 152.7 ft/sec velocities and a blower inlet pressure of 99.997 KPA. anything bigger is a waste, it wont do anything.
3" --> 76.2mm....damn that would be one huge throttle body on a J!!
-da chinchilla
running a stock HO TB on my setup was causing air to be accerated to over 600ft/sec and a pressure drop to 85kpa at the blower inlet. thats terrible. so, this up grade made a HUGE impact.
M90'd Built LGO-15 PSI
http://webstarts.com/quadper4mance
Nukkinfuttz wrote:here is a pic of the 3" TB im running with the M90. this is a side by side to a Quad 4 HO TB.
What is your 76.2mm in the pic from? And what are the holes in the plate for? I see it uses the same TPS and IAC as the 2.4.
The size of pulley we are running would make a difference in what size throttle body would be optimal if I follow what you are saying correctly. Right?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, October 28, 2008 7:07 PM
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
I have learned thanks to Skunk and PJ that the 2.2 eco TB and the 2.4 TB share the same IAC moter and wiring plug so we are good there. However the TPS plugs are diferent. The 2.4 uses a round 3 prong plug as can be seen in the above pic and the 2.2eco uses a rectangular 3 prong plug. When Vulcan recieves the 2.2eco TB I need them to see if the TPS sensor from the two TB's will physically swap. If so we are golden. Both TPS sensors operate on a 0-5v scale so worst case we have to splice in a TPS plug from a 2.2eco
I am eager to explore the idea of this 75mm tb nukinfutz posted. Talk about throwing a wrench in the works.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, October 28, 2008 7:20 PM
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
Most TPS sensors are 5 volt, even other makes.
Wade an lsx tb would work well. thatst why i recomended vulcan make an adapter for it.
My TB is from a LS-1
its plugs are all exactly the same as my Quad 4's, so ill assume they are all the same as the LD9's as well.
The holes in the plate were where a air deflector was popriveted to the back of the TB plate. I wish i took a pic of it. basically, as you opened the TB, it would only allow air flow under the plate, but not over the top of the plate, becuase this thing was blocking the top opening from airflow. So, i removed that thing by drilling out the pop rivets, and then epoxying them closed after this pic was taken.
M90'd Built LGO-15 PSI
http://webstarts.com/quadper4mance
Wade Jarvis wrote:Nukkinfuttz wrote:If you were to spin the M62 to 12K (which is its max recommened speed on a stock unit) then it would be trying to intake about 400 CFM's
according to this chart.... http://www.not2fast.com/gasflow/velocity.shtml
you find that intaking 400CFM's into a TB that is 57mm ( or 2.2458"), then the air velocity would be 272.6 Ft/sec which is acceptable. Corky Bell recommends intake velocities stay under 300 Ft/min, or the acceration of the air causes too much pressure drop. so, using the stock LD9 57mm TB, the drop would leave you with 97.095 KPA at sea level. Thats pretty good IMHO.
if you wanted to move upto the 61MM (2.4034") TB that was the other suggestion, it would speed to air upto 238 Ft/sec and blower inlet pressure would be 98.100 KPA.
so there is a gain to be had by going with the 61mm TB, but its negligable,. Probably not "required" and therefore not worth the extra expence. IMHO.
but, I wont be buying one either, so i dont care what yall decide. But, you should probably be researching this stuff scientifically instead of gut feelings.
Thank you for posting the technical aspect of this. I was unaware of how to determine what size TB I should be going with.
The stock 2.4 is 52mm stock. Now I just need to know 100% for sure the size of the 02-05 jbody eco tb. I have heard conflicting reports although most say it is 58mm stock. I do know it can be bored to 62 without being sleeved so it looks as though the eco's 58-62mm range would be close to ideal.
x2. This info is very helpful
What is the stock size pulley on the MP62?? I have a 10% overdrive crank pulley to take into account
Jason
99 Z24 Supercharged
157hp/171tq - NA
190hp/170tq @ 6psi
LD9 for Life
