Icemike:
The lsx TB is all well and dandy except this problem posted by airtonics in the adapter plate thread.
Airtonics wrote:Yes the LS1 TB has 3 bolts and it's huge. You'd have to widen the opening of the s/c a little for it to work correctly. Also the butterfly opens in the opposite direction of ours, so mounting it to the TB and getting the throttle cable to work could be difficult.
If you get these made I could be interested...
Nukinfutz: Can you provide some input on this.
The 75mm would be cool to since it would eliminate the TPS plug issue.
Vulcan: What are your thoughts on making the butterfly open the right way.
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
well, if you were to make an enlogated adaptor, similar to that adaptor thats on the Tecnics M62, where the TB is away from the supercharger by a distance, then plate opening direction and size should not be a factor.
also, here is the M62 Blower map. I spent some time and converted it from Cubic Meters of flow to Cubic Feet of flow, since in america we usually deal with CFMs. So, here it is.
Now, the LD9 Stock crank pulley is a 6.5 OD.
You need to find out what pulley your blower has on it, and divide the two. lets say you have a 3" pulley.
you would take 6.5 / 3 = 2.16
so, 2.16:1 is your drive ratio
using this info, calculate your top blower speed when the engine is at top speed.
so, 6500RPMs x 2.16 = 14040
so, the blower would be turning at 14,040 RPMS when your engine was at redline. thats acceptable for a short period of time.
next, look at the map i posted, you see that 14k RPM,s the blower will be intaking about 500 CFM's.
yes, your pulley size has a direct effect on what size TB you need. play with these numbers and formulas for a while and see whats best for you.
M90'd Built LGO-15 PSI
http://webstarts.com/quadper4mance
I am using a stock size MD-LD9 crank pulley. My redline is 7000rpm. I was going to go with a 2.9" pulley and a eco TB bored to 62mm.
So 6.5 / 2.9 = 2.24 drive ratio
7000rpm x 2.24 = 15,689 at redline
It is hard to tell with that map but I would be looking at roughly needing 550cfm. So the best TB for me would be a 62mm if 62mm and 75mm are my only options??
62mm is 2.4409462 inches So at 550cfm through a 2.44" hole gave me 282.2fps and 96.7
75mm is 2.9527575 inches So at 550cfm through a 2.95" hole gave me 193.1fps and 99.2
Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, October 29, 2008 11:03 AM
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
I can have the throttle body sit at desired angle when i make the adapter, ill wait to make a final decision when the parts are all here layed out in front of me.
Wade, you got it man!
as long as you stay under 300 you are good. so if 62mm will make that happen, then its acceptable. i would still go with the LS1 option though if i had the choice. Maybe that could be noted as the first upgrade to make after buying the kit if its supplied with the 62mm. either choice is ALOT better than the LD9 TB, so its good thats been discovered.
M90'd Built LGO-15 PSI
http://webstarts.com/quadper4mance
Can someone give me the lowdown on whats going on with this? I am ready to make a manifold next week for the supercharger. What all is needed after the charger is mounted? Do you have to have an idler? What injectors do you have to run? What size belt?
http://www.overkillengineeringmotorsports.com/
FAST2.4 P wrote:Can someone give me the lowdown on whats going on with this? I am ready to make a manifold next week for the supercharger. What all is needed after the charger is mounted? Do you have to have an idler? What injectors do you have to run? What size belt?
Vulcan is making the manifold to mount the m62 to. They will also be making any idler pulley if needed as well as a throttle body spacer to mount the throttle body to the sc inlet. None of them bolt right up and as of now the plan seems to be to use the 02-05 2.2 eco found in the jbody's throttle body. They plan on providing the belt needed but are not sure exactly what belt it will be yet.
The m62 supercharger, eco TB and and fueling is up to you to get. Some 440cc injectors look to be good for this setup if you are using the gm reflash and can tune it with HP Tuners.
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
Right now we're selling off the kit for $1020. The price will be a little bit more when its fully developed im certain of that. Probably be around $1100-$1200 total with the adapter plate and all. So if you buy it now your saving a few hundred.
just because i talked to wade, and promised I'd do this here it is;
apologies for the crap picture, but the measurements are as follows:
64mm at the mouth of the throttle body
58mm at the butterfly
59.5mm at the rear
i'm shipping the one that wade bought to vulcan tomorrow.
Quote:
Right now we're selling off the kit for $1020. The price will be a little bit more when its fully developed im certain of that. Probably be around $1100-$1200 total with the adapter plate and all. So if you buy it now your saving a few hundred.
Post production price is fine.
As long as it bolts up 100% and works with the auto I'm down.
Just waiting to see the finished results.
-M
Remember....syringes go in the RED waste basket.
its being fitting to an auto. So yup it will fit both auto and manual. I sent the material and print to the machine shop today to have the intake manifold flanges cut. just waiting on the supercharger and throttle body so i can have the footprint flange and adapter cut.
Also, the more people that can buy this kit before release the better, it would help fund the project for making this all possible.
Just FYI, that the stock pulley size on the LSJ MP62 is 3.31" So I may have to redo some of my calculations
Jason
99 Z24 Supercharged
157hp/171tq - NA
190hp/170tq @ 6psi
LD9 for Life
I sincerely hope this intake manifold has some sort of provisions for a heat exchanger, otherwise this is a complete waste of time and money. Water methanol might get you by on a M45 but it wont cut it on a M62. You can't run nitrous or water methanol when your idling in traffic in the summer. Even with cooling mods ive seen my SS go into the 140s or higher at idle, at WOT as high as 174, hell on the dyno I even got up to 201 degrees IAT!!!!!!!!!!!
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
NorthStar TB's are 75MM, and open the same way the LD9's do...... bolt pattern is the same as the LS1's also.
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
Rodimus Prime wrote:I sincerely hope this intake manifold has some sort of provisions for a heat exchanger, otherwise this is a complete waste of time and money. Water methanol might get you by on a M45 but it wont cut it on a M62. You can't run nitrous or water methanol when your idling in traffic in the summer. Even with cooling mods ive seen my SS go into the 140s or higher at idle, at WOT as high as 174, hell on the dyno I even got up to 201 degrees IAT!!!!!!!!!!!
We are going to have to do something for constant cooling. Either a heat exchanger setup or a front mount intercooler. I am not sure which way Vulcan plans to do it or if they even know for sure yet. I am not sure what way would actually cool the air the most. I know things like size and design of H/E and intercooler play a big part here. I know with either setup the argument could be made for a nitrous spraybar. I am trying to keep it simple and would much rather spray the nitrous into the engine than on the H/E or intercooler. So far I am open to either H/E or intercooler.
Wide open throttle we can use water/methanol injection or I am considering a 25 shot of nitrous.
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
Well i wasn't sure i had to improvise cooling features into this manifold, I could make the design of the manifold have an inlet and outlet port for a front mount intercooler to be used with the manifold, or i could try and make sometype of air to water intercooler inside of it, however this would require an external water tank and water pump, ect. Ill have to brain storm a little bit here guys.
Vulcan Turbo, LLC wrote:Well i wasn't sure i had to improvise cooling features into this manifold, I could make the design of the manifold have an inlet and outlet port for a front mount intercooler to be used with the manifold, or i could try and make sometype of air to water intercooler inside of it, however this would require an external water tank and water pump, ect. Ill have to brain storm a little bit here guys.
This is kind of my fault here. I know I had said I did not care if it had some type of intercooler or H/E since I was planning on using alky injection. Looking back on that I see the error of my thinking as I had the wide open throttle temps covered but had not fully realized how important having the H/E is for constant cooling. We must address the heat issue as it is the biggest problem with a roots type setup.
I am trying to locate some pics of the manifold the m62 bolts onto from the cobalt to give you for refference on how to liquid cool the manifold.. If someone has some please post them.
The added components needed for a heat exchanger setup would be something that is best purchased and assembled by the customer. I can't imagine it would be out of the skill level of anyone who would purchase this. Alot of the heat exchanger stuff can be picked up from a cobalt or upgraded using cobra pump, CX racing H/E ect. The cobalt coolant fill tube, bolts, and tiny bracket bolt onto the front of the M62 anyhow. The only issue might be a tight fit between the upper radiator support and the fill tube.
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
Kurt (aka my UPS man), dropped this off this morning... looks good!
wow this is looking like its actually gonna happen. anyone have an estimate on about how much power its capable of on an ld9? cuz if it can put down some good numbers id jump aboard on this as well. ive been waiting for this to happen since the first person started this setup. so this is really exciting for me
why would think you need constant cooling if it has a built in bypass valve? the purpose of that vavle is to take the SC out of boost, there fore it can generate no heat, becuase its not compressing the air at all. it cant compress it at all becuase thru the bypass, the outlet is connected to the inlet. it will equalize, therefore no boost, no heat.
the underhood temps of 210 degrees are perfectly normal. they a stock car. this is becuase the manifold id directly connected to the engine heat, which its temp is 195-220 dictated by the themostat. all this head being removed from the engine is then radiated out of the coolant, by a fan blowing it directly onto the engine manifold. the engine is making the manifold heat soak, its not the blower doing it. Im sure you may not be aware of this because a factory car has a composit intake that does not heat soak much, but the aluminum sc mani will. the stock quad 4 aluminum intake mani does the same thing.
as soon as you get going this heat will clear the mani. if you still dont like it, use a phenolic spacer. its cheaper than a H/E setup and will do the same thing, since the bypass vavle is making sure the blower does not generate any heat off boost.
M90'd Built LGO-15 PSI
http://webstarts.com/quadper4mance
